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2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8565
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Author:  _Wolf_ [ Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Hi everyone,

Just opening up this discussion log. If y'all want: you can comment directly on my log as well. It's fine with me :-)

Author:  Oscar_Actuary [ Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

seeing Squats the day after Deadlifts leads me to ask

and rather than write up my own guess to your thoughts, I'd like you to expand on why you do this in light of conventional wisdom

Author:  _Wolf_ [ Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

DEADLIFT Training - Mesocycle 41 Week 1

Graduated Deadlift Struggle Sets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... g5JOXdXQwk

Author:  _Wolf_ [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

SQUAT Training - Mesocycle 41 Week 1

Worked up to 355 on Back Squats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gf-thRbTWQ

Author:  Oscar_Actuary [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Did you mean to ignore me?

Author:  _Wolf_ [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

No no...I didn't see your post. My apologies. I'll respond shortly. Using my phone right now.

Author:  _Wolf_ [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

What is wrong with Squats after Deadlifts? By that same token I'm also Deadlifting twice a week sometimes...both heavy. So? Actually, on some weeks I'm doing Heavy Deadlifts Twice, Squats Once and Overhead Squats. So thats like 4 huge movers. So?

Author:  Oscar_Actuary [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
seeing Squats the day after Deadlifts leads me to ask
and rather than write up my own guess to your thoughts, I'd like you to expand on why you do this in light of conventional wisdom

_Wolf_ wrote:
What is wrong with Squats after Deadlifts? By that same token I'm also Deadlifting twice a week sometimes...both heavy. So? Actually, on some weeks I'm doing Heavy Deadlifts Twice, Squats Once and Overhead Squats. So thats like 4 huge movers. So?


That's really the best answer you can give me?
Being ignored may have been the better option

Author:  _Wolf_ [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
That's really the best answer you can give me?
Being ignored may have been the better option


Well, no. I am actually asking you why are Squats bad after Deadlifts. I'm not being a smartass. Why is this an issue? Seriously.

Author:  stuward [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

I can answer. You guys are coming at this from 2 different ends so you're not getting each other's point. In a conventional program, you want to ensure that your back is fresh before you do squats, therefore you don't squat after deadlifts and you don't squat 2 days in a row. In a high volume routine that you have progressed up to, as in this case, that goes out the window. Squatting in a chronically fatigued state gives you a stimulus that's hard to get otherwise, but it's an advanced technique that's not for everyone.

Author:  _Wolf_ [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

stuward wrote:
I can answer. You guys are coming at this from 2 different ends so you're not getting each other's point. In a conventional program, you want to ensure that your back is fresh before you do squats, therefore you don't squat after deadlifts and you don't squat 2 days in a row. In a high volume routine that you have progressed up to, as in this case, that goes out the window. Squatting in a chronically fatigued state gives you a stimulus that's hard to get otherwise, but it's an advanced technique that's not for everyone.


I don't do a high volume routine.

I know his point was to say that if you Squat after your Deadlifts you are doing so in a "fatigued" state.

BUT, Fatigue is extremely complex. It isn't just one workout that makes a difference. It's the whole layout which distributes fatigue.

I am doing Squats (which is very low in volume because I only do some heavy singles/doubles/triples) because it optimizes volume and allows me to focus on Deadlifts (which is the goal) and PC work.

I wasn't being a smartass. My point is that there are circular referencing statements.

We just had a little thread on this at GUS actually....Let me bring it up: http://www.gustrength.com/forum/t-42317 ... nking-post

You cannot deadlift very often because the deadlift is too hard on the body.

This is circular reasoning.

Author:  stuward [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Sorry, I said high volume but I meant high frequency, as in you don't wait for "super compensation" before you train the movement again. Yes fatigue is extremely complex and you and Cliff are at different ends of the spectrum on it.

Author:  Oscar_Actuary [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

_Wolf_ wrote:
I know his point was to say that if you Squat after your Deadlifts you are doing so in a "fatigued" state.

BUT, Fatigue is extremely complex. It isn't just one workout that makes a difference. It's the whole layout which distributes fatigue.


thanks for a more complete answer.



Stuward,
Who's Cliff?

Author:  stuward [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
_Wolf_ wrote:
I know his point was to say that if you Squat after your Deadlifts you are doing so in a "fatigued" state.

BUT, Fatigue is extremely complex. It isn't just one workout that makes a difference. It's the whole layout which distributes fatigue.


thanks for a more complete answer.



Stuward,
Who's Cliff?


Sorry Clint. :red:
PS, my name is Stu, not Stuward.

Author:  Oscar_Actuary [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2012: Absolute Force Production Discussion

stuward wrote:
Sorry Clint. :red:
PS, my name is Stu, not Stuward.


lol, I knew. :joker:

and thanks for mediating!

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