ExRx.net

so ive started to count my cals, carbs, fats etc.

i just ate 5 slices of pizza and wrote down the nutritional facts form this site http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extnews/newsre ... /pizza.pdf

i came out with about 1900 calories, 80 grams of fat, 2,400 mg of sodium. does this sound correct? im not asking for you guys to check my numbers, im asking if the site that gave the nutritional facts seem to be correct. too bad it doesnt give protein and unsaturated fat etc.

i think the numbers are high, but then again teh only time i ever feel like i have a full stomach/bloated is when i eat pizza. i like pizza.

Pizza is bad and you should find a site that has better numbers. It would be best to read the label or contact the restaurant because I am sure the values vary a lot.

whats bad about pizza? i asked the resturaunt today if they had a sheet or anything and they did not. i would call them up if the exactness of it mattered, but i only eat pizza about once a month so i probably wont. im just glad to see 2000 calories.

its great to feel full and to think it will add some weight and energy. btw i weighed myself after a week on the mass gainer and i went down about 1/4 of a pound. so i need to step up the eating still.

Pizza can be heavy on the calories. Did you have all of those toppings too? Five slices in one sitting? I used to eat a whole medium pizza in one sitting and you're right... damn I felt full.

I'm going to be the guy who goes out on a limb again and say that 2,000 calories in one sitting probably isn't the best way to do it. What is your body really going to do with 2,000 calories at once? After all... if it can't use that energy for something, it's going to get stored for later.

I'm about as stereotypical "skinny" as one can get. I have all the genetic factors... metabolism, small frame, lightly muscled, etc. I don't know how much of a "skinny" person you are, but I've found that people who aren't "skinny" have some misconceptions about how we work. Yes, I can get away with eating junk food 24/7 and not gain much fat. But once I get into a regular caloric surplus situation, I can put on the fat pretty easily if I'm not being careful of what I put in my mouth. For that reason, I generally don't engage in "irresponsible" eating when I'm looking to gain mass. (The usual advice is, if you're skinny and looking to add mass, you can eat everything and anything. I disagree.)

I think your goal would be to first shoot for 3,400 calories a day (every day, you must be consistent). If you're not gaining on that volume of food, you can up it some until you do. Now spread those 3,400 calories out across the entire day, and you'll see that you won't often have that "full" feeling. You can eat pizza and convenience foods on occasion, just like you said, but most of your big meals should be centered around (1) a lean protein (i.e., from an animal), (2) some kind of nice complex carb (potato, pasta, rice, something), and (3) vegetables (ugh I cheat here a bit sometimes).

If you want I can list out what and when I eat. You'll find that I don't eat nearly as "clean" as a healthy person should, but I'm human and I'm stubborn.

John

As a former stereotypical "skinny" individuals, let me provide some information. Research shows that gaining weight for an ectomorph (thin person) is harder than an ectomorph (heavy person) to lose weight.

With that said, the ectomorph need to basically consume calorie dense foods, be it pizza or something similar.

In weight gain program, you are going to put on body fat. However, with a good resistance training program the majority of that weight will be muscle.

David Barr provides great information on this in "Big Bulking Tips"
[http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=781428]. Also, Dr Lonnie Lowery's "Strategic Overeating for Mass" [http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=07-004-diet] is anothergreat article that follow's Barr's recommendations.



How did you come up with this number? First of all, you need to find out where you are and where you want to go. It like taking a trip...you plan you trip. In planning a trip you first need to know where you are.

So, the first step is to find out how many calories you consume in a day. One that is accomplished, you then write a plan that increases the number or calores in you daily diet.



Exactly. But first you need to know where you are on this "eating" road map...a three day recall diet will provide you with an idea of the average calories you consume in a day. You then "up it" from there.



Why is 3400 calorie per day the "magic" number? Why are you stuck on this number?



In a bulking diet, with any meal or snack, you are going to have a full feeling due to the fact you are consuming more calories.



In a bulking, you diet should revolve around calorie dense foods such as pizza. You want to eat meats that provide more calories...so, higher fat meats are preferred.

The bulking diet is not a diet you live on. It is a diet that you implement periodically to increase you muscle mass.

The anedotal evidence shows that this works. Body builders use it in the off season for a reason, because it works.

After bulking up, you then go into a cutting phase in which you stip the fat off. You end up weight more with more muscle mass and less body fat.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

It not the pizza that is bad for an average individual, it consuming 2,000 calories in a meal that is bad.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

I actually thought this person was trying to lose weight at first so my fault there. I mostly meant to affirm his findings that pizza does indeed have a huge number of calories per slice

Good input Kenny.

I estimated 3400 calories based on his height and weight that he gave in another thread and plugged them into one of those common calorie calculators on the web. I was just trying to give a ballpark figure to contrast w/ eating 2,000 calories in one sitting.

I agree that he should start by examining his current diet and then adding calories until he sees weight gain.

Realistically, he's only going to gain 1-2 lbs of muscle mass a week (maybe a little more initially).

I guess I was just expressing my concern with a "binge eating" philosophy (eat anything and everything w/o respect to caloric intake) which, yes, will add mass, but could also add completely unnecessary amounts of fat. But it was just my opinion based on my experience and he may find it a very successful approach. I'm not much of a super-clean eater myself and nobody's going to get in between me and my pizza.

John

John,

Ok, that makes sense.



I question someone gaining that much musle in a week.



I understand you reasoning. However, I am more in line with Barr and Lowry's method of using the "See food" diet for gaining muscle mass.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

my main concern is too much cholesterol and hard ot digest fat that is going to give me a heart attack soemday.

i am currently getting around 3,100 calories a day, and its hard for me to find enough to eat to get that. ill post how much ive gained in a week next tuesday when i weigh myself.

First of all, 70% of your cholesterol is produced by your body. So, if you have a high cholesterol reading, blame it on your parents...:)

Research shows that cutting back on high cholesterol foods will decrease your cholesterol reading by only 10%. While that helps with those with high cholesterol readings, a 10% reduction is not that much.

With that said, it would appear that a high cholesterol diet will only increase one's cholesterol reading by 10%.

Even if you are consuming high cholesterol fats, there is very little problem if this is done so for a short time period.

You don't have to consume fats with cholesterol in them. There are plenty of health fats: Olive oil, flaxseed oil, fish oils, etc.

Fats are not hard to digest, they just take longer to digest. Fats take about nine hours to digest.



Then you are eating the WRONG foods. To increase you caloric intake. You need to eat calorie dencse foods. I have elaborated on that in a previous post.

Junk food is one of the most effective methods of increasing you caloric intake. Also, you can drink more calories than you can eat. Mixing milk, ice cream, peanut butter, powered milk, etc...then drink it between meals.

A bulking diet is NOT a diet you live on forever, it a short term diet you use to add mass.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

Kenny is absolutely right on all counts. I remember when the scare was on dropping eggs out of the diet. When I was younger, I used to eat close to 8 a day, and never had high chloresterol. Then after the 80's low fat fiasco, some tests were done, proving that it wasn't the chloresterol you ate that really mattered, it wasgenetics, and lots of other dietary issues. One thing that sticks in my mind was the very low fat, low to low moderate protein group, hi carb, in the form of starch, actually had the highest amount of chloresterol readings.
As to bulking, just get your calories, go for cheeseburgers, pizza, whatever. As Kenny said, it's not a long term plan, just a short term weight gain thing. I can remember my old roomate used to knock back double cheeseburger ever 3 or 4 hours and before bed would knock down a can of pork and beans, resulting in 25 lb gain in a little over 3 months.
Tim

I don't think I could ever completely believe that cholesterol was mainly your body's problem. Probably because there are two kinds of cholesterol, and the bad cholesterol comes from food, that being only food from animals. Sure, maybe its not so bad to eat alot of high meat/dairy/egg diets for a little while, but you can also get protein from other sources. It sickens me when I see all these people going to restaurants trying to tell me eating a rack of ribs or a 16 steak every night is healthier for dinner than having some fish on rice, because the ribs don't have "all them carbs, cause carbs is what makes you fat". Sure, I guess it might be easier to stay thinner because eating a crapload of meat makes you "feel fuller", but I think eventually it will come back to bite everyone in the ass who thinks it does not have any longterm effects. While I do not have any medical evidence right off the top of my head, I guess I have just learned that we can have too much of a good thing (such as steak or pork. tastewise)

The fact is, high cholesterol readings are due to genetics.



Low density lipoproteins are directly related to saturated fats. Cutting back on them will decrease LDL readings. That part is true.

However, High Density Lipoproteins are not affected by saturated fats. Aerobic exercise is the most effective method of increeasing HDL readings.



Consuming more calories than you expend is the primary cause of gaining weight, regardless of what the diet one choses.



None of the post eluded to "eating a crap load or meat" let alone eating it long term. So, I am not sure what has to do with the subject.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.

There is a scientist whos trying to get pizza reclassified as an exercise supplement because his research concludes that it is essential to weight training. his new product " Zappem 100% liquified pizza" has just started to be sold in the shops. apparantly theres several flavours to choose from: pepperoni and free range chicken, margherita surprise, quattro stagioni ( u get a free vivaldi cd with this one ), and there's also a spelt flour one too for coeliacs. my favourite one is the pepperoni of course, good for when on long distance runs but not for them if you know what i mean ;0)

it's only 69.99 per 5ltr tub but i think u can get individual shots and powder form sachets which are cheaper but i don't know how much.

almost as good as greggs scotch pies!

nc