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 Post subject: Whey vs. Soy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:21 pm 
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Greetings,

I'm concerned that my protein supplement is standing in the way of continued fat loss. I'm using Muscle Milk because it's really high in protein, but it's low in cholesterol, but it's pretty high in what's supposed to be "good" fat. Good in this case means "good for gaining weight". It's a good product, but overkill for me. I used a whey supplement previously, but it was super high in cholesterol, something else my doctor wants me to avoid.

My current goal is still to lose weight but I want to be sure I'm losing fat and not muscle. I am not concerned about building any muscle mass right now. I do mostly cardio work to try to lose the fat, and some weight/strength training. Without getting into numbers I think I probably have a good 10lbs of fat to lose, this is real fat that needs to be lost, around my belly.

I lift weights 3 times a week and do cardio 3 times a week, usually doing some cardio after the weights. I'm going to drop to 2 days a week for weights to really concentrate on burning the fat off.

Should I try a soy protein instead of the whey? It's lower in fat and cholesterol, but I'm wondering if it's as effective as animal based proteins in muscle conditioning. Also, I've heard and read some stuff about potential problems with estrogen. Anything to that? If not, what's a good low-cholesterol whey product?

Thanks for any help. This is a great website for a health n00b like myself.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:11 pm 
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Whey is the best because of how quick it is digested. I have heard about the soy thing, I have never had any problems with soy though. Forget about fat and cholesterol. Everything you have heard and all conventional wisdom on the subject is based on junk science with an agenda. Cholesterol synthesis is controlled by insulin and the lipids you consume provide 10% or less of the raw material.

So if you are following some kind of low fat diet I would advise against that. Something low carb or low glycemic would be a lot better.

Also cardio is for working the heart and lungs, not weight loss. Weights, especially basic compound moves are the best for losing weight. A high intensity type of cardio called interval training is good to supplement that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:26 pm 
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So then I should be ok with the whey, despite it's high base cholesterol? Sounds good to me. I'm supposed to go back next week for an annual checkup and blood work, I hope that with the lifestyle changes I've made over the last year that it won't even be an issue. Based on that information I'll switch back to regular whey and leave the Muscle Milk alone for now.

I did very well last year losing quite a bit of weight through just walking. But I have added weight training and it's kind of caused me to stall out on the weight loss. Right now I'm not even concerned with actual weight loss, the numbers on the scale don't really matter, I'm just not losing as much fat as I'd like to while I'm building muscle. I don't really want to take any shortcuts but I do want to make sure I'm not doing anything to hamper my own progress in that area.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:44 pm 
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The thing is when you were just doing cardio you were probably losing just as much muscle as fat. When you added the weights, not only do you get the beginner effect of fast muscle mass gains while losing fat at the same time. Your atrophied state from the muscle loss will cause an additional effect called "muscle memory". What that means is that it is much easier to regain lost muscle then it is to gain more muscle then you have ever had. So with the combo of the beginner effect, muscle memory, and eating plenty of protein, you could have very rapid gains in muscle mass.

Also keep in mind fat loss gets slower as you near your goal. You also build up a tolerance for what you are doing. Calorie cutting and cardio will lower your metabolism. Easing up on that and doing more weight training should help raise it and maximize your fat loss.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:17 am 
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That all makes sense. I know I was losing a lot of muscle before.

So I was thinking of switching to just two days a week of weights, instead of three, but it sounds like maybe I'm better off doing three. Which is what I'd rather do anyway. I've been making really good, steady strength gains over the last 2.5 months and I'd like to keep that going well.

Whey protein, and sticking with the weights. Thanks for the help!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:47 am 
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Let us know how your blood work looks. I know my cholesterol was high before I started weight training and within 1 year it was normal and it got better every year since. That was without concerning myself with dietary cholesterol. I never believed there was any relationship anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:52 am 
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I will do that. I'm not sure how I will react if it is high. I've done a really good job of cutting out the cholesterol and fat related stuff from my diet, mostly staying away from the transfats type BS. If it's still high and the doctor wants to put me on some kind of pill I may very well tell him "no, thanks"


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 Post subject: Re: Whey vs. Soy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:28 am 
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Quote:
Noexit wrote:
Greetings,

I'm concerned that my protein supplement is standing in the way of continued fat loss. I'm using Muscle Milk because it's really high in protein, but it's low in cholesterol, but it's pretty high in what's supposed to be "good" fat. Good in this case means "good for gaining weight". It's a good product, but overkill for me. I used a whey supplement previously, but it was super high in cholesterol, something else my doctor wants me to avoid.


If you have a high cholesterol reading, blame it on your parent. 70% of your cholesterol reading is produced by your body.

Research shows that reducing the amount of cholesterol you eat will bring your cholesterol reading down about 10%. While 10% is better than nothing, it not that much.

The best method of getting you cholesterol reading down if first with aerobics. Then, it is recommended you reduce you fats and foods with cholesterol.

Quote:
My current goal is still to lose weight but I want to be sure I'm losing fat and not muscle. I am not concerned about building any muscle mass right now. I do mostly cardio work to try to lose the fat, and some weight/strength training. Without getting into numbers I think I probably have a good 10lbs of fat to lose, this is real fat that needs to be lost, around my belly.

I lift weights 3 times a week and do cardio 3 times a week, usually doing some cardio after the weights. I'm going to drop to 2 days a week for weights to really concentrate on burning the fat off.


The most effecitve method of increasing your metabolism with aerobics is interval training. Example, sprint for a minute or two then jog or walk for a minute or two. You repeat this sequence for 20-30 minutes.

You need to push your heart rate above 75% of your heart rate max.

This type of aerobics increases your metabolism for hour after your work out. Research shows that you can burn up to 9 time more body fat with this method.

The same basically applies with weight/resiatance training. Take short rest periods between sets, 60 seconds.

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Should I try a soy protein instead of the whey? It's lower in fat and cholesterol, but I'm wondering if it's as effective as animal based proteins in muscle conditioning. Also, I've heard and read some stuff about potential problems with estrogen. Anything to that? If not, what's a good low-cholesterol whey product?


I am not a big proponent of soy. There are better proteins.

Whey is an excellent protein. Whey protein is digested in about 100 minutes. That make it a great protein (along with a high glycemic index carbohydrate) about 30 minutes before your workout, during your work out and within 15 mintues after your workout.

Caseinate or milk protein is a better protein to take during the day or before going to bed. Digestion takes up to 300 minutes. That is because caseinate and milk protein are more of a time released protein. Thus, you body maintains a more constant supply of protein.

Also, caseinate has been show to be more effective for weight loss.

Milk protein is 80% caseinate and 20% whey protein. That is the primary difference between caseinate and milk protein.

Kenny Croxdale

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:26 pm 
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Just how effective is whey for a 55 year old? Is it assimilated in the body as easily as a younger person? Also, i've heard too much protein is not good for the body.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:49 am 
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The same as with younger person.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:17 am 
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bob wrote:
Just how effective is whey for a 55 year old? Is it assimilated in the body as easily as a younger person? Also, i've heard too much protein is not good for the body.


Bob,

What does "too much protein is not good for the body" mean? Too much of anythng can cause problems.

As an example, drinking too much water will kill you..."hyponatremia, in which the excess water dilutes the salt level in the body too much." [http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2005/04/15/drinking_water_more_isnt_always_better/]

Kenny Croxdale

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:32 am 
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I asked the question because i don't know. Maybe i was too vague. I suppose their are lots of variables- body type, weight, fat percentages. Is this question more specific? Where is the extra protein stored? Best regards, Bob.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:05 pm 
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It would be hard to take in too much protein. It would have to be extreme like the hyponatremia example. All that stuff you hear about protein screws up your kidneys is urban legend. I should say it's bollocks. That way someone who doesn't speak English well, will say they've never had bollocks. And then continue to ask how much protein is in the bollocks anyway. And we'd all have a good laugh. Make a rocky mountain oyster joke or two.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:24 pm 
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bob wrote:
I asked the question because i don't know. Maybe i was too vague. I suppose their are lots of variables- body type, weight, fat percentages. Is this question more specific? Where is the extra protein stored? Best regards, Bob.


Bob,

The amount of protein prescribded is based on body weight. The prescribed amount of protein usually being 1.2 to 2 per kilo of body weight.

Some of the determinate factors are you activity level, amount of muscle mass, etc.

Protein is not stored in the body. However, if you consume too many calories, even with protein, the additional calories are stored as body fat.

As Ironman noted, it hard to eat too much protein if you are a normal person...even with the Atkin's Diet.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:51 pm 
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That explains it more clearly. I appreciate the response.


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