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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:42 pm 
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Hello, this is my newest and I hope greatest version of my fat loss tips article. This diet is not something I came up with all by myself I posted this to summarize information you would find on the internet, but there are parts that I added because it would make sense to go along with this life style. I won't be able to post every single food on here that would be good or bad to eat, it is your responsibility to do a little research and some thinking to see what is a good or bad choice. On another note this may seem like a lot for you to read and absorb and the fact is, it is. When you look at this you may get slightly discouraged and may get overwhelmed by the vast amounts of information. But to start losing weight it will not take you to know all this information or even abide by all of it, which is why they are only guidelines. But as you get more advanced with your diet and get lower body fat percentages you will have to refine your diet to make it near perfect to keep seeing results. So start off slow and work your way up. Good Luck

Ideology
This diet of mine will be based around a low carbohydrate low starch diet/lifestyle. This is where you limit you intake of carbs from dairy and grains which would include pasta, bread, cereal, chips, etc. The speed at which you want to lose weight will be determined by how strict you are with your carb consumption and if everything else you are doing is correct. One thing which is your responsibility as the viewer is to come up with an exercise schedule to go along with this diet since the exercise is needed to get this diet to work correctly. This diet might work for a little while with no exercise but it will mostly be water weight and muscle.

Low Carb vs. Atkins
You might be thinking of Atkins diet as you are reading this but there are differences and they should be clarified. Atkins diet is a low carb diet as well, but they take a different approach to losing the weight. Atkins if more of a zero carb diet, you are allowed no more than 20 net grams of carbs in a day, which that means total carb intake minus total fiber intake. Also on that diet you can eat what you want as long as it is fat and protein. You may be thinking "wow that’s awesome, I can eat all I want", but it's not. That diet means you must severely limit your intake of any vegetables, fruits, grains, and dairy (with the exception of cheese), severely limit as in have 20 net carbs or less a day which that is equal to 2 1/2 cups of broccoli. A problem with Atkins over time is that you will start to get vitamin deficiencies since you can't eat much of any veggies or fruit. In my version of the low carb diet you can proudly eat vegetables and fruit, but you still must limit intake of grains and some dairy. Sadly, you can't eat anything you want on my or any other diet that is actually healthy for you. The next issue, since all you are eating is meat the only fats you are getting in your body is animal fat and that does not abide by the 1:1:1 as stated below. Too much animal fat means you will be getting too much saturated fat. That should not occur, that can have potential health hazards. My last major point the Atkins diet is very confusing in general, the book is huge and that seems excessive for a diet to need to be that complicated. That leaves a lot of room to mess up the diet and I'm sure it has occurred on many occasions. As you can see mine takes up the room of several pages. I'm sure if I picked it apart I could find some more differences, but I made my point.

Tidbits of info:

Hierarchy of fatty meats:
In the hierarchy of fatty meats, pork is fattier than beef, beef is fattier than poultry with skin on it, poultry with skin is fattier than skinned poultry, and poultry is fattier than fish...Even though there is some variance that should give you a general idea of your meats.

The breakdown of calories:
7 kcal per gram of alcohol
9 kcal per gram of fat
4 kcal per gram of carbohydrates and sugar

Fat Ratios/Info:
There should be a 1:1:1 ratio of saturated to monounsaturated to polyunsaturated fats in your diet.
Another very important ratio is the Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio. The best ratio would be 1:1, but what is seen most often is in the range of 1:4 - 1:20 which are neither ideal nor healthy. The greatest source of Omega-3 is fish oil. For more info on the Omega's, read the links below and do some research.
http://drsquat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4552
http://drsquat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2652
http://drsquat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3978
http://drsquat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4756

Nutrition Labels & Conventional Wisdom
Every single one of us has read a nutrition label before, that Black and white tag located on the back of all foods containers and juice bottles. Well that is something you will need to learn to use quite effectively while dieting. As you are going to the store and picking out foods and are unsure if they are a good or bad choice, read the label. Do the 200 calories consist of sugar and carbs, do they consist of fats and proteins, do they consist of a general mix of all of them, or do they consist of low carbs with high fiber and some fat and protein? One other rule of thumb that will help out greatly is where the food is. Did you find it in a box on a shelf or is it a fresh produce. How many steps did it take to get that food on the shelf? Vegetables and fruits is one step, pick it from the ground. I can't even imagine how many steps it takes to get cookies on the shelf. The general guidelines for picking out foods are to see where the nutrition is coming from and/or to see how simple it is, simple is always better. That's what you must look out for. If you can do all that then I have accomplished one my goal.

My next part of this section is how conventional wisdom plays its part in nutrition. If you were to search the internet for healthy foods you will get a list of foods and general guidelines that look very similar to this link below. You will see many articles like that; they are based around conventional wisdom and a lack of common sense.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-guide ... ons_e.html
To quote the article “Avoid snacks that may be high in calories, fat, sugar or salt’”. Only a part of that is right. Yes you must eliminate sugar and you don’t want high calorie snacks. But you do not want to avoid fats. Generally fats are good for you; they maintain a steady flow of nutrients into the body and keep your blood glucose levels stable. The only fats you don’t want are trans fat and high amounts of saturated fat. Salt, everybody thinks salt is bad for you. If you are a perfectly healthy individual who eats good, drinks water, and exercises regularly then sodium should not worry you. So if you want a little salt on your food, go right ahead worry free. Finally the way that this plays a role in nutrition is now you know not to believe everything you read, I have told you what you need to know so if you read a food and it says low sodium or low fat, don’t think anything of the food. It’s put there purposely by companies because they know it will get people to buy it. To further my point if you read the snacks they suggest popsicles, popcorn, cereal w/ milk, low fat yogurt, English muffin, pumpernickel bagel. Milk, popsicles, popcorn is all sugar. The low fat yogurt will have fillers in place of the fat which will be sugar based. Cereal, English muffins, and bagels are carbs all the way through. If you can understand this concept and apply it on a daily basis then I have accomplished another one of my goals.

“Snacks”
The snacks I will suggest will have to be partially planned as well but the work to create them is next to nothing. You need to choose a snack that is appropriate for the situation. It depends on the food you already ate. If you just had a piece of fruit then it's not wise to eat another piece after that. With the fruit you would want a fat filled food to slow the digestion of the sugar(s) naturally in the fruit. These foods are suggested snacks by me because they are simple, low carb, healthy fat content, and depending on the one you are looking at high protein content. One more point to make, the snacks may not necessarily be a snack, they can also work as a meal replacement if in a crunch since your are eating 5-8 times in a day and meals consist of only 200-400 calories. That can make a serving size of peanut butter and a small apple a suitable meal.

Suggested "Snacks": Nuts, Peanut Butter, Protein Shake (w/ water), seeds, leftover meat, seafood, fruits, olive oil (1 tblsp), hard boiled eggs, cheese, raw veggies w/ low-carb dip, microwavable pork rinds, homemade jerky, trail mix , raw tofu, salad with left over chicken w/ tblsp of olive oil, or any low carb simple foods. The trail mix is a food you must be wary of, there are many variations of it and it ranged from healthy to very unhealthy versions. The trail mix you must get has dried fruit, seeds, nuts, and does not include any added sugar.

Anti-Diet Foods
The foods I want you to avoid: Creamy salad dressings, potatoes, popcorn, chips of all kinds, white bread, fatty meats etc. Use your head; you know what to look for.
The foods I want you to eliminate: Sweets (pie, cake, cookies, candy, etc), dairy based deserts, full sugar soda, fast food, juice, etc.

The foods to avoid are generally starchy. Starchy foods start to get digested in the mouth. When it is fully digested it turns into sugar which is something you want to avoid. The exception is the salad dressing, your Ranch and Caesar dressings can easily be abused first off since they are so calorie dense and second you can have another thing in its place that has much more of a nutritional value. The fatty meats might be confusing so let me clarify this, animal fat is what you find in meat (duh!), animal fat mainly consists of saturated fat. If you read above you can see that the ratio of fats should be 1:1:1, when you eat animal fat that balance will be thrown off towards too much saturated fats. The fats you want should come partially from meats and the rest from vegetables and some from grains.

Good to know:
Here are a few supplements that can help to enhance fat loss: Caffeine 200-400mg, CLA 1-3.5g, L-Carnitine 2-4g, Green Tea, Pyruvate .1g/lb of body fat
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/lcarn.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/cla.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pyruvate.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/green.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/caffeine.html

3500 calories per pound of body fat...not 4086
http://www.hhp.ufl.edu/faculty/pbird/ke ... lories.HTM

Links I find to be helpful and informative:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... habits.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... ting_2.htm
http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition.html
http://www.whfoods.com
http://www.robbwolf.com/?p=78
http://www.nutritiondata.com/
http://drsquat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4673
http://www.takeactionfitness.com/getshreddeddiet.html
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4360
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4041
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3929
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4067
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4132
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4080
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4492
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4150
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3801

Some suggested guidelines:

1). Avoid eating deep fried foods; a baked piece of chicken could have 300 calories less than in its deep fried counterpart.

2). Dairy, this for example would be milk, cheese, & yogurt. Here are some general guidelines. Totally skip on the milk, it is composed of sugar and that is something you should avoid. If you want yogurt then get plain full fat sugar free yogurt. Full fat cheese, it's a good snack. Worried about calcium? Don't be, if the rest of your diet is balanced which would include taking a multivitamin then getting the necessary calcium will not be a problem. Be wary of low fat foods, some of these will have added fillers in its place which can make it unhealthy to eat or even more calorie filled than the full fat counterpart.

3). Do not be afraid of healthy fats. These are a very important part of the diet. They slow digestion which will keep you fuller longer and slows the digestion of sugar(s) that may have been in others foods that you may have consumed.

4). If you are in a crunch, protein shakes (water, not milk) w/ 1 serving of peanut butter can make a great meal replacement.

5). Aim for 5-8 mini meals with in a day, this will keep a constant flow of nutrients into the body and you won't get hungry which in turn will lower the possibility of getting those 'evil' cravings.

6). If you are having difficulty with meals, plan them ahead of time. The night before sit down and create a schedule of all the foods you will have the next day and prepare it.

7). If you decide to eat eggs, do not discard the yolks. That is where all the nutrition is. Don't be worried about the cholesterol; as long as your diet is balanced and you are exercising continuously then there are no worries.

8). Since this list is based around a low carb diet/lifestyle (not Atkins!), concentrate any carbohydrate intake that doesn't consist of fruits or vegetables before and after exercising.

9). Avoid high sugar/high saturated fat condiments (or any food except fruit), or at least use them sparingly, try condiments such as mustard or guacamole on your foods.

10). There are many health food products out on the market these days, ranging from Lean Cuisine to Vitamin Water(s). Do not buy any of them. Read the labels of these frozen entrees they tend to be packed with preservatives and generally the nutritional content isn't impressive for a low carb lifestyle. Look at the vitamin content in these drinks, there is insignificant amount for vitamins in the drink. Another negative is the price tag these meals can cost $5 apiece and drinks $1-2 apiece.

11). Make yourself a grocery list before you go to the store; get only what you need and nothing else. Do not buy a bag of Doritos for a rainy day because you know self consciously no matter what you say to yourself you will eventually end up wiping out the whole bag in one day and ruining your diet. If you have children, this would be a great time to get them involved, you get them involved by educating them on how to eat and will keep them healthier. As you know the parents are the most influential people in a child’s life so even actions like this will impact them greatly.

12). Do not avoid oils but have it in moderation/serving size of it, but you must eliminate all partially hydrogenated oils.

13). To try and keep yourself from overeating a specific food, take foods that you buy and break them up into single serving sizes inside of little plastic snack bags. An example, take a bag of almonds and take a 1/4 cup and put it in a snack bag and pack that as a part of one of your meals for the day.

14). Experiment with herbs and spices in your meals. You can make delicious foods broiling foods on a charcoal grill.

15). When possible try to incorporate natural foods over processed foods.

16). Don’t boil your vegetables. It removes precious nutrients; invest in a steamer for your foods.

17). Go with dark green and dense vegetables, it has much more nutrition and will satisfy you longer. Try adding high density vegetables into your daily salad.

18). As a part of your diet, add a strong multivitamin in the morning and fish oil (up to 6 grams). With fish oil you can spread the dosages out throughout the day by taking a tablet at meals you would consider breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

19). Go with whole grain products and avoid bleached, sugary products. Instead of white bread go whole wheat, instead of your white pasta get wheat pasta, go from white rice to brown rice.

20). Defeat the cravings; don't allow yourself to eat the unhealthy processed foods your body desires. Get yourself some sweet fruits and vegetables and munch on those until the cravings subside.

21). Don't drink your calories! Try diet drinks like fruit flavored waters and diet sodas. Or better yet stick with your daily servings of water.

22). Drink plenty of water; it does wonders for the mind and body. Also it may depress the appetite, if you are dehydrated and feel hungry try drinking some water to see if it subsides.

23). Avoid processed foods when possible, a good chunk of the foods are empty calories.

24). Alcohol consumption is not recommended. If you want a drink have a SERVING of red wine to support possible health benefits.

25). Try not to skip exercising routine when possible. It will do you no good except allow you to veg during that time you gave up and cause you to feel guilty.

26). Don't watch the biggest loser and be disappointed if you don't drop as much weight as they do, you got to remember it’s still a reality TV show. 1-2 pounds is a great accomplishment.

27). Be patient if you plateau it’s going to happen.

28). But don't be to patient because that could indicate flaws in your lifestyle.

29). Have yourself set goals at all time to reach this size clothing by this time or drop this much weight in a week. Don't make to demanding of a goal for yourself though because then it will work against you.

30). If you have a party to go to, eat a meal before you go and aim to eat the healthier foods that they are serving you there.

31). Don't poison your mind with media and try to look like those people. Those people generally obsess over their fat loss, have personal trainers, are paid to lose the weight, and/or take drugs to enhance the fat loss.

32). Have a cheat day once in a while, to help keep your diet focused and maybe even use it as a goal for weight loss. Go out to dinner...order a pizza...buy a donut...but don't cheat so much that you lose your progress.

33). Try and get other people involved, it will help to keep you focused.

34). There is NO magic pill for losing weight, it takes time to put on the weight and it will take time to lose it.

35). Take measurements, pictures, and/or bf % before you start dieting. And update it every month or whenever you like to give you a reminder that what you are doing is working and help inspire you to persevere.

36). Most importantly, Don't make dieting a burden on yourself, have some fun to.


I will continually update this, pm me if you want to have any suggestions for additions to my list or if you feel some of my guidelines are out of line or if you have compliments since those are always greatly appreciated.

S/N: ironmaiden708


This is newest version here so it won't match the rest of posts in this thread.


Last edited by ironmaiden708 on Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:41 pm 
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Quote:
In the heirarchy of fatty meats, pork is more fatty than beef, beef is more fatty than poultry with skin on it, poultry with skin is more fatty than skinned poultry, and poultry is more fatty than fish...That should give a good rule of thumb when it comes to choosing your meats.


I don't see what fat has to do with it. There is no evidence that fat is unhealthy or hinders weight loss. There is some to the contrary though.

Quote:
1). Never fry foods


That depends on what it's fried in. Hydrogenated oil would be bad, but otherwise I don't see a problem as long as it isn't breaded. Pan frying or sauteeing is fine too. I do a lot of that.

Quote:
2). Aviod full fat dairy products - milk, yogurt, 1/2 & 1/2, cheese, etc


Why? I don't see any reason why that matters. The low fat stuff has more processed crap in it.

Quote:
3). Avoid all oils and commercial dressings - give vinegar or lemon jiuce a try, also add some herbs and spices


Many oils are actually very healthy and contain vital nutrients. Again the fat doesn't matter. I would avoid stuff like ketchup and BBQ sauce though.

Quote:
4). Eat your eggs, potatoes, popcorn, and etc condiment free. Alot of those condiments have alot of sodium and will cause water retension.


Many condiments are just fine. However popcorn and potatoes are not. As for water retention, it is just temporary and depends on fluid intake as well.

Quote:
5). Experiment with herbs and spices in your meals. You can make delicious foods broiling foods on a charcoal grill.


Agreed.

Quote:
6). Go all natural with your foods, they don't have added chemicals in them and are usually vey low in sodium and full of nuitrition.


Natural food is good, but you don't have to be totally chemical phobic. Sodium only matters if you are sodium sensitive.

Quote:
7). Don't boil your vegetables. It removes precious nuitrients, invest in a steamer for your foods.


Agreed. I love my steamer.

Quote:
8). Go with dark green and dense vegetables, it has much more nuitrition and will satify you longer. Try adding adding spinach or brocolli into your daily salad.


Agreed.

Quote:
9). Do not try a low carb diet. It does more harm then good.


There is no evidence to support that. There is a mountain of it showing low carb is healthy and effective.

Quote:
10). Go with whole grain products and avoid bleached, sugary products. Instead of white bread go whole wheat, instead of your standard pasta get wheat pasta, go from white rice to brown rice.

11). Defeat the cravings, don't allow youself to eat the fatty processed foods your body desires. Get yourself some sweet fruits and vegetables and munch on those until the cravings subside.


Agreed on both.

Quote:
12). Avoid sodium when possible, it is bad for the heart and creates alot of water retention.


Actually the myth is it causes high blood pressure. This is the first time I have heard someone claim sodium is bad for the heart. Water retention has a lot to do with fluid intake. If salt gives you really bad water retention you probably don't drink enough water.

Quote:
13). Aviod calories filled drinks since those are unnecissary, even calories free drinks are no better for you since they have sodium in you that will not quench your thirst and just causes retension and dehydrates you more.


I agree with the first part, but on the second part, diet drinks will NOT dehydrate you.

Quote:
14). No processed foods, empty calories.


agreed

Quote:
15). No alcohol consumption


Alcohol is fine in moderation. It can actually be good for you. Wine is in particular. A glass of wine or 2 a day is quite healthy.

Quote:
16). Drink plenty of water, it does wonders for the mind and body


It also does wonders for water retention. Helps mobilize fat stores too.



Quote:
17). Don't watch the biggest loser and be dissapointed if you don't drop as much weight as they do, you got to remember its still a reality tv show. 1-2 pounds is a great accomplishment.

18). Be patient if you plateau its gonna happen

19). But don't be to patient because that could indicate a flaw in your lifestyle

20). Have yourself set goals at all time to reach this size clothing by this time or drop this much weight in a week. don't make to demanding or a goal for yourself though because then it will work against you.

21). If you have a party to go to, eat a meal before you go and aim to eat the healthier foods that they are giving you there.

22). Don't poison your mind with media and try to look like those people.

23). Have a cheat day once in a while, to help keep your diet focused and maybe even use it as a goal for weightloss. Go out to dinner...order a pizza...buy a donut...but don't cheat so much that you lose your progress.

24). Try and get other people involved, it will most likely keep you focused.

25). Most importantly, Don't make dieting a burden on yourself, have some fun to.


Agreed on all those.


I see there is a lot of fat and sodium mythology. The sodium in particular is like 80's nostalgia. They thought it was bad in the 80's, found out it wasn't in the 90's. And now "sodium=bad" is back despite no research. Some of that mythology is even outdated mythology. The no oils is very 80's for sure.

All this stuff was cutting edge ideas thought to be right like late 70's and 80's. Much of it has somehow persisted.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:43 pm 
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Agreed on the 2 you added later also.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:53 pm 
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Ironman wrote:
Quote:
2). Aviod full fat dairy products - milk, yogurt, 1/2 & 1/2, cheese, etc


Why? I don't see any reason why that matters. The low fat stuff has more processed crap in it.



It sure does. But I think he meant avoid them for the calories. For example, drinking skim milk instead of whole milk, eating skimmed ricotta cheese instead of whole milk ricotta, and so on. I totally agree about the low-fat stuff...full of sugars and man-made fillers. But if you're dropping weight, moving from whole milk to 2% milk or skim is an easy way to drop calories. Just don't go from all-natural cheese to processed low-fat "cheez" and pretend you're being healthy.

It's just a reverse of the advice you'd give some 15-year old kid training weights - swap the skim for whole milk, eat full-fat cheeses, guzzle the half-and-half, whatever, just get more calories from natural sources.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:27 pm 
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Some of those tips are meant for bodybuilders not just your average person.


Low carb diets can be bad for you, thats why the atkins diet is not recommended by doctors. You lose the weight then it comes back on again after you lose it which messes up your metabolism. If you want to still have an active lifestyle then low carb is not the way for you. It takes much longer for your body to burn fat then it does with carbs and sugars. You will not be able to do the activities to your full potential if you have no easy fuel to access. Also because your body takes such a long time to beak down fats it will break down muscle as well to get the energy it needs which is not beneficial to anyone. That breakdown of proteins in the muscles causes a higher break down of nitrogen that is in the bonds of the proteins which needs to be filtered out by the kidneys which it can be hard on the kidneys. The need to increase meat intake on a low carb diet causes you kidneys to be over worked since you are getting protein that you do not need. Much of the weight loss on a low carb, high protein diet, especially in the first few weeks, is actually because of dehydration and muscle loss.
http://www.sideroad.com/Weight_Loss/low-carb-diet-danger.html


Salt sensitivity
Sodium is an environmental factor that has received the greatest attention. Approximately 60% of the essential hypertension population is responsive to sodium intake[citation needed]. This is due to the fact that increasing amounts of salt in a person's bloodstream causes the body to draw more water, increasing the pressure on the blood vessel walls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_blood_pressure

How do salt and sodium affect high blood pressure?
Most Americans consume far more salt (sodium) than their bodies need. Heavy sodium consumption increases blood pressure in some people, leading to high blood pressure. People diagnosed with high blood pressure are often put on sodium-restricted diets.
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4650

Not everyone gets Hypertension from sodium but the ones that do could get heart disease which is not a good thing.


Ok, not all diet sodas will dehydrate you but the ones with caffiene will

“Diet cola has no nutritive value and should not replace water or other more nutritive drinks like milk.” Peebles said. “Caffeine acts as a diuretic, so putting aside any possible risks of aspartame, as that is controversial, you are dehydrating yourself daily by [drinking too much diet cola].”
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2004/10/7/dietCokeAddicts Diet soda is still not a recommendation as a replacement for water, it will do no good for you.
http://www.uthscsa.edu/hscnews/singleformat.asp?newID=1539


THE CALORIES IS THE PROBLEM WITH DEEP FRIED FOODS. If you are trying to lose weight you don't want an extra 300 calories in oil, its not needed. Also you don't want to add potential saturated fats/trans in your body either if you have to much of it, it can cause cardiovascular disease. Alot of those foods that have fat in it have saturated fats, so if you can reduce that along with amount of calories in a day that would be a beneficial thing to do. Pan frying it depends on the oil your using. If you want to deep fry or pan fry then use virgin coconut oil or red palm oil, but still won't recommend it to a person trying to lose weight. The only oil that I believe will have any beneficial nutrients inside of it is fish oil.
http://chetday.com/healthyfats.htm


Quote:
The low fat stuff has more processed crap in it.

Im going to need proof of that statement.


Popcorn and potatoes are fine, popcorn will help with those cravings since it will tempoarily fill you and is low in calories (as long as butter and salt are omited).....Potatoes you must be crazy because potatoes are very healthy food. I think you need to read up on your potatoes. http://www.healthypotato.com/index.asp


Alcohol - Although an alcohol-rich meal does increase your metabolic rate, it also suppresses the number of fat calories your body burns for energy — far more so than meals rich in protein, carbohydrate, or fat [3]. While the odd drink now and again isn't going to hurt, the bottom line is that alcohol and a leaner, stronger body just doesn't mix. http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/alcohol.htm

Alcohol will not help you lose weight, in that post I was not promoting how heart healthy red wine was. I was stating what will be the most efficient way to lose weight.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:34 pm 
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Yea, I can see that angle. Where taking in too many calories in general will slow weight loss. I don't think milk is good for weight loss due to the lactose though.

I like cheeses (as long as you don't eat like a pound a day), sugar free yogurt, cottage cheese.


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I am talking about bodybuilding and average people.

On low carb: Some of the things like it taking longer to burn dietary fat rather than carbs are the whole point. It will not cause muscle loss given enough protein in take and weight training. Also you do not dehydrate when you start low carb. You just drop a little water weight because the more carbs you take in the more water your body has to hold. It sounds like this guy is also getting ketosis mixed up with ketoacidosis, which are 2 VERY different things. Much of that research is very old. Recent studies have shown none of that to be true.
Here are some links on it.
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carbs-weight-gain.html
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/burn-fat.html
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/vindicated.html
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/choles ... yth_1.html

With that said, low carb is for fat loss. It is not for sports or bulking, and I never said it was. Also carb intake depends on body type and genetics.

Most people are not sodium sensitive. Even some hypertensives aren't. It is pure mythology.
http://www.health-report.co.uk/sodium_c ... yths1.html

As for soda, I feel just fine after a diet Mountain Dew. No dehydration. I really don't think there is enough caffeine. Maybe if you put a shot of whiskey in it.....
See the bottom part of this page.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp

Aspartame!? You have got to be kidding me...... That isn't even taken seriously by anyone but nutjobs. It is an URBAN LEGEND!
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp

I wonder if this is the thought process.....
"Oh no we can't believe the American cancer society, what do they know about cancer. Somebody sent me chain mail about it, that has to be right."
lol

on calories, fat and frying. If you will notice I excluded hydrogenated oil, which is the source of transfat, which is the one unhealthy fat. There is no proof that saturated fat is bad, and calories only matter to a point.
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/do-cal ... count.html
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/choles ... yth_1.html
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/sat-fat_and_women.html


Yes low fat has more processed crap. Look at the nutritional contents and ingredients. They are loaded with sugars. Everybody knows that. Haven't you ever looked while grocery shopping?

Popcorn and potatoes start turning into sugar in your mouth. They will spike your insulin which is not good at all. Plus microwave popcorn contains hydrogenated oils frequently.

While alcohol is burned before other macros, it doesn't suppress anything so much as it just has to be used first. There was just a study showing moderate drinkers have better health then non. light or heavy drinkers. Plenty of fit people drink.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76092.php
While causation is not proved by association. Lack of association certainly proves the presence of BS.



I used to believe all that low fat, low calorie crap. It didn't work. Weight loss would stall out very quickly. So I'd give up and get fatter. I discovered low carb and I lost weight. But I lost muscle too. Then I finally discovered I needed more protein than I was led to believe. I also found out I had to lift weights, not do cardio. And THAT is what worked, when I put it all together. Low carb, high protein and weights in combination. I regained my health too. Cholesterol, triglycerides and glucose, all normalized real quick.

If I'm not mistaken I think Tim has been doing lowish carbs since the late 1960's.


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Quote:
There was just a study showing moderate drinkers have better health then non. light or heavy drinkers. Plenty of fit people drink.

If your overweight and want to lose weight, are you going to drink alcohol as apart of your diet? I sure as hell wouldn't want the extra sugar or carbs in it? I know that alcohol is good for your cardiovascualr health, but it won't benefit you when you want to lose weight.

Quote:
There is no proof that saturated fat is bad

I guess my physiology teacher was lying to me then, I guess I should tell him how big of a moron he is.

Quote:
Yes low fat has more processed crap. Look at the nutritional contents and ingredients.

I'll still need documentation that shows its worse for you than full fat products. The low fat cheezeits I have contain no sugar or fake sugar (btw I don't eat those, for my parents).

Quote:
Popcorn and potatoes start turning into sugar in your mouth. They will spike your insulin which is not good at all.

I've never gotten a sugar rush from eating popcorn or potatoes. I don't believe I've ever read an article on diabetes where they blame popcorn and potatoes for the diabetes outbreak that seems to be going on.

Quote:
Plus microwave popcorn contains hydrogenated oils frequently.

Air-pop it then or get oil free microwave popcorn which I believe you can buy.

Quote:
Aspartame!? You have got to be kidding me...... That isn't even taken seriously by anyone but nutjobs. It is an URBAN LEGEND!

Whoops, should have deleted that, but since I didn't I meant for you to not focus on the aspartame part of that statement but on the diruetic affects of the caffeine...that you have shown to not be true so congrats.

Quote:
But we don't want to use lean muscle tissue in this way: it weakens us. We want to get the glucose our bodies need from what we eat. Some of that will come from carbs, the rest from dietary proteins. Our bodies need a constant supply of protein to sustain a healthy structure. This requires a fairly minimal amount of protein: about 1 to 1.5 grams per kilogram of lean body weight per day is all that is necessary to preserve muscle mass.[iv] Any protein over and above this amount can be used as a source of glucose.

Quote:
Low carb, high protein and weights in combination

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fat-not-protein.html
low carb, high fat diet, not high protein...high protein not good for kidneys

I never went on a low carb diet and I lost 60lbs, I've tried it and all it did was cause me to crash and be a step up from being brain dead.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:21 am 
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On point one, there is no sugar or carbs in alcohol, it is alcohol as the name would suggest, alcohol, a completely different macro. It doesn't benefit weight loss and I never said it did. I said it isn't going to interfere enough to drop it all together. But obviously sugary mixers are going to blow any diet.


No the teacher was not lying or a moron. He, like all of us at one point, didn't know the fat=bad study started with a desired result and then used cherry picking to make it so. Didn't you read the article? You can't Have a whole bunch of different groups of people, and then throw out all the results that don't show what you want, and then keep 3 groups that do. That's junk science.

Cheezits are an exception, however both varieties contain enriched flour and hydrogenated oil. So it is processed crap regardless. Milk is another exception since all they do is skim fat off the top, it doesn't have any more lactose. However lactose should be kept to a minimum.
regular ranch
http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/4115.html
fat free
http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/4119.html
Couldn't find regular mayo, but it has no carbs, it's all fat.
here is fat free
http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/4013.html
cheddar usually has no carbs. Fat free does
http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item/99791.html
Not to mention this stuff tastes awful. None of this is real bad as far as the processed stuff goes. A few years back they used to be a lot worse. But you can't say eating fat free cookies, and chips is healthy. It's still junk food. And fat free cheese has got to be the most revolting thing I have ever tried.


I have seen plenty of articles where people blame diabetes on high GI carbs in general. Which popcorn and potatoes are. They start turning to sugar right away. There was stuff about both these in previous links. Notice they are both in the high GI section here on MIT's website.
http://web.mit.edu/athletics/sportsmedi ... index.html


You do need high fat with low carb, but protein is needed to prevent muscle loss. Shoot when I was a beginner I lost fat and gained muscle at the same time with carbs as low as 20 a day.
Also I had put that link in because of the first part. I didn't realize it has some outdated information at the bottom. That was thought to be true, but we found out different later. Sorry about the old article, it just had some good explanations at the beginning.
Here is an article with updated research.
http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/bodybu ... damage.htm


Well you probably have very good insulin function and sensitivity, you are also very young. As to the problems with low carb, you probably didn't do it right. That is one down side I will admit about low carb, it is more complicated. Most people don't drink enough water, or they cut carbs too low. If you were crashed out, you are suppose to increase carbs. The levels are very individual. One person that does low carb might need to have 20 a day to lose weight. While another person loses weight too fast and feels like crap if he goes under 40. Being young and playing sports can also increase the amount of carbs you need. This wiki page lists various studies at the bottom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_re ... rate_diets


You will also notice that as fat intake goes down, obesity goes up.



All this has been talked about on here in the past too. There are tons of posts on the subject.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:29 am 
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Ironman, you're correct. Depends on how you define low carb, but yes, I've been limiting starch since the 70's, keeping processed stuff out as much as possible, to include breads and pasta's. Some of the real thick , true whole wheat stuff like those heavy brow breads the Europeans do are fine, but when I was iving up there,they use them as one slic per sandwich, They are half the size of the regular stuff you find here, sliced very thin, and eaten open face. I don't count carbs, but try to keep things fairly lean meat, fatty fish, lots of poultry, don't worry about the skin so much, don't care if its light or dark, get lots of good fat in the form of avacados, nuts, olive oil, load the plate up with vegetables, and havea piece or two of fruit. I might occasionally have some whole grains, but keep portions small as they are very calorie dense, and not very dense on nutrients. Look at any diabetes.org site, and this is what they are recommending these days. I posted in on this under the advice thread, and like there, am going to refer to the two stickies I posted up
I posted these two *great breakdown on carbs by Stu, btw) and refer Ironmaiden to Berardi's article on 7 habits. Berardi is considered on of the top nutritionists when it comes to bodybuilding nutrition.
Tim


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:30 am 
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Another factor when talking about fat in milk is whether it is a whole food or not.
Milk is a whole food only if it is full 3 1/2% fat. In order to make low fat milk, either skim, 1% or 2%, the milk is dried, separated and reconstituted. Half and Half is the same, dried milk with added fat. Any time you have a choice, you should consume whole foods. I'm not going to get into the raw vs pasturized debate.

I am in agreement with Ironman on fat. Fat is an important source of nutrients and energy. Everyone needs an adequate supply of fat. The optimum ratio of fat to carbs will vary according to the individual and their goals, and maybe there is no optimum ratio. Low-fat diets are probably detrimental in most cases. I would suggest 20-30% calories from fat unless on a low-carb diet in which case it would be higher.

It's important to get a good ratio of the different types of fat. They are not all the same. I don't know for sure the optimal ratios because it hasn't been studied enough but it's probably reasonable to get 1/3 saturated (milk, meat, coconut, butter, lard), 1/3 Monounsaturated (Olive Oil, Nuts), 1/3 Polyunsaturated of which at least 1/3 of that should be Omega 3 (Fish, flax, walnuts), the other 2/3 can be Omega 6 (plant oils). Trans Fats (hard margarines, shortning) should be avoided.


Stu


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:40 am 
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All fluids will aid in hydration even if they contain sugar, caffine or alcohol. They may not be as good as plain water but they will hydrate.

Fluid intake should be 1 litre per 1000 calories expended including water in food. For normal, non-training people will do fine relying on thirst. People undergoing training should stay ahead of their thirst by drinking before they are thirsty. If nothing else you will perform better.

The Scopes article explains some of this but has a couple small issues. Beer and wine was once used by soldiers for rehydration as it was safer that local water supplies. They often drank large quantities without dehydration. Like caffiene, it's what you get used to.

"Practical Programming" has a good explanation of this.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:54 am 
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Been a lot of discussio, about carbs, alcohol, etc.
Going to post this here, on the weight / fat loss idea. Whie it doesn't fit the Akins defination of low-carb, it is certainly MUCH lower carb than most Americans certainly eat. It explains a lot of the nutrients in terms of all Fats are not equal. Ditto for carbs and protein, which ones to choose, and why when most people think they are eating clean, they can't figure out why they're not shedding fat.
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... ting_2.htm
It's a two parter, with a link into part I, and is basically a tweak on the 7 habits I posted in a sticky. This also, i an indirect way, addresses type II diabetes, and most , if not all, diabetic associations follow this pattern of thought as well.
Tim


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That's a good point about fat ratios. That is where people usually run into trouble. They don't get enough poly and omega 3. Some people get virtually none, which will cause a lot of metabolic problems.

I eat fish and walnuts. I use flax occasionally. I supplement fish oil as well, so that I get plenty even on days I don't eat fish. I take CLA too. I'd use MCT if I could every find any.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:15 pm 
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For further reading:
http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Fats-Omega- ... 0520242823

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/1026 ... rview.html

Also keep in mind that people generally get too much Omega 6 because everyone was preaching about it's good points ( it is essential after all) and the evils of animal fats. Too much Omega 6 is bad for you and Omega 3 help protect you from it. That's why the ratios are important.


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