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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:50 am 
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Hey all,
I am very new here and I have loved reading your posts. I really need some advice because it seems I can find NOONE in the world who knows about this.
I have been very strict low carbing for 20 months. I have lost 130lbs so far. I am 5'9" 175lbs. I eat mostly lean proteins, green veggies and a small amount of dairy.
I currently am working with a trainer doing weight lifting 3times a week and I do cardio 5 times a week. My trainer and I have been increasing the weight training to a higher level and really pushing me to my limits. He is pretty young and doesn't know a lot about the low carb diet. My questions are these:
1. Should I start intergrating carbs into my diet even if it kicks me out of Ketosis because of the weight training? If so what would be the best kind of carbs? More veggies? Whole grains? And when should I have them? right before I work out because they are burned off so quick?

2. Does anyone know how I can find out just HOW much protein I should be taking in for pretty heavy weight lifting?

3. I have about 20 more pounds to lose and I can't seem to get it off even with the strict diet and excercise. Any ideas about why this is? Should I just give it more time? Is it because of all the loose skin? (does anyone think that may tighten up?) Is cardio best for this or weight training?

I hope this is the right forum to ask these questions. I go to a real small gym and haven't encountered any REAL bodybuilders who might know about this stuff. Any nutritionist I have talked to has said I am basically going to die because of my strict low carb lifestyle sooooooooo.....

I would really appreciate any thoughts, comments or links that you guys could offer. I'm just looking for a little direction thats all.

Thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:46 am 
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Welcome!

I won't claim to be a diet expert by any means...I come here for diet advice too. I know enough to eat whole, natural foods whenever possible. Other than that...I have some links that might help you until the better-informed weigh in on this.

Weight training and cardio for weight loss:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1526539
Alwyn Cosgrove's Hierarchy of Fat Loss

Short version - the weight lifting will help the most, the cardio the least. You can do HIIT to burn fat more effectively.

Protein Amounts:
The usual recommendation is "1 gram per pound of bodyweight" (I alway like how that mixes measuring systems). But I also found this article series (parts 1, 2, and 3) on protein amounts interesting, it might be helpful to you too:
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/artic ... tein-1.htm

(note to everyone - if what this Venuto guy is saying is bunk, please let me know before I pass it along further).

As for your workout, if you want advice, best bet is to post in the general forum what you do on a day-by-day basis, with weights and reps and rest times and whatever else.

Hope that helps.

Peter


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:49 am 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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Hi. Excelent job so far, congratulations. In order not to repeat myself, read the two stickies on top. Stuward gives great explanations of types of carbs, etc. In the other sticky you will see a link to Dr John Berardi's 7 habits. It discusses just what you are asking in your question @1. I would ease a a bit on the restrictions on use the 7 habits as a guideline. You'll see it is FAIRLY low-ish in carbs, just lays out the best choices.
2. Most nutritionists list about 1 - 1.5 gr P / lb bodyweight. If you stay near those recommendations you should be fine.
3. Well, that's pretty normal. Just gonna take some time. Here are some tips from Berardi which are just tweaks on his 7 habits geared to the final fat loss stages.
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... ting_2.htm
Good luck in your endeavors and good training.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:49 am 
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evern83 wrote:
Hey all,
...Any nutritionist I have talked to has said I am basically going to die because of my strict low carb lifestyle sooooooooo.....

Thank you


The low-carb diet is extreme but it's not going to kill you. Fat and carbs both provide energy so as long as you are getting enough calories you're OK. High levels of protein are not dangerous and are needed to build and preserve muscle.

In a traditional high carb diet the bulk of the calories come from GPB (Grains, Potatoes & Beans). Although these have lots of nutrients, they are relatively low due to their high calorie content. The foods with the highest nutrient densities is the fibrous vegetables (especially green leafy) and fruits and you seem to be getting lots of these. A high vegetable diet will make up for a lot of deficiencies elsewhere.

I would make sure that you are getting a large variety of vegetables. If there is a group you are avoiding, start adding it in gradually. Tomatoes, garlic, herbs, etc. (Tim, isn't Chili the perfect food?).

BTW, Tom Venuto routinely gets bodybuilders down to low single digits of bf.

Here are some highlights of his book:

Quote:
Always calculate your calorie needs FIRST (based on activity, goals, body weight or lean body mass), then once you’ve figured out your calorie needs, you can divvy them up like you’d slice up a pie.

The first rule of macronutrient ratios: Always eat proteins and carbohydrates together.

The ultimate meal combination for burning fat is a lean protein, a starchy
carbohydrate and a fibrous carbohydrate eaten together at the same meal

Here are three examples of the "Ultimate meal combination"
Example 1:
Brown Rice (complex carb)
Mixed green salad (complex fibrous carb)
Salmon (lean protein)
Example 2:
Sweet potato (complex carb)
Broccoli (complex fibrous carb)
Chicken breast cutlet (lean protein)
Example 3:
Oatmeal (complex carbohydrate)
Egg white omelet with one yolk (lean protein)
Grapefruit (natural simple carb – optional)

No single ratio is "the best" and no single ratio will work for everyone 100% of the time

Very low carbohydrate diets work almost all of the time for all body types. The problem is they also fail to keep body fat off permanently almost all of the time. It's nearly impossible to stay on low carbohydrates for a long time (nor can I figure out why you would want to). It’s also up for debate whether the very high saturated fat levels allowed in these programs are healthy or not.

If fat loss is your number one goal and you want to achieve it the healthy way without losing muscle or energy, then you can't go wrong with 50-55% carbohydrates, 30% protein and 15-20% fat as your starting point.

The 12 worst fat-storing foods you should never eat
X Ice cream
X Fried foods
X Doughnuts and pastries
X Candy, chocolate & sweets
X Soda
X Fruit “drinks” and other sugar-sweetened beverages
X Potato chips
X Bacon, sausage
X White Bread
X Hot dogs, fast food burgers
X Cookies
X Sugary breakfast cereals



Stu


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:02 am 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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LOL, Stu, Chili IS the perfect food. I make mine meat only (of course with the spices, peppers and some tomatoes( and if in the mood, serve it over the beans.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:15 am 
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A couple of questions on from that list, if someone doesn't mind enlightening me :)

Are these things good or bad, and why?

* Fruit Juice?
* Sweet Potato?
* Fried food? Does this mean only deep fat fried or does it include things like stir fried, wok fried etc? why is wok frying bad?
* Doughnuts, I always thought that these foods weren't too bad when eating post workout, simply because of lots of sugar :) (not that I eat many).
* Bacon. I thought Bacon was a good source of protein and fat.
* How do you make the perfect chilli?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:22 am 
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Daniel, I don't reall like classifying anything as "good" or "bad". Just about everything has it's place. Lets just look at them
-fruit juice., lots of good nutients, however, calorie dense, pretty high on the GI index due to the fiber being taken out, doesn't fit too well with a low carb approach (which you seem to be doing). A good rule of thumb, eat your fruit, don't drink it. My father's various different cardiologist recommend a 6 oz glass/ day, done in the morning with breakfast. A lot of the diabetes researchers also target this along with sugary soda's as to the widespread type II diabetes epidemic in the US. among pre-teens and teens. Parents think it's good for the kids (and it is to a degree), and then they load the kids upon it with way too much sugars and calories.
-Sweet potatoes, great nutitionally, but very calorie/starch dense. Moderate on the GI scale. Great stuff, eat some, just watch portion control.
-Fried food. The main objection here is getting the fat insed with the meat/veg you're cooking. I don't want to get into the difference between the two, as I don't have the expertise to really discuss that part. I wouldn't avoid it at all costs, just don't use it exlusively. As to fat infusion, a good cook/chef can usually get around that with control of the oil's temperature, and the food to be fried's prep. I've seen some Tempura chef's at work, and they keep the food to be fried very cold, oil between 350-370 F, and the stuff comes out very light. This is an area you just have to use your judgement on. Right now, some of the cancer types are bashing grilling and pan broiling because they say searing the meat causes carcinogens. To them, I guess it means you have to boil everything. Just use your judgement.
-Donuts, LOL, you really need an explanation? Have you ever seen one being made? First they make a light airy dough out of LOTs of lard, and dump tons of sugar into it, then they deep fry them. Do I need to go any further?
-Bacon, mixed here.For what you are doing, I'd say it's fine. For most people not going the higher fat route, it does contain a LOT of fat. I did look at the breakdown on some of that ready to serve precooked stuff though, and it appears that the P to F ratio isn't all that badI guess an awful lot of fat drains out during the cooking process. Kind of expensive though. Now, remember, I'm talking Bacon as I know it in the US as opposed to what they call Bacon in the UK and Canada, which is much leaner. I'd say go for it.
-The perfect chilli, LOL again. You can ask ten diffeent cooks that question and get ten different answers. For a basic barebones chilli similar to what the Texicans developed back in the days of the cattle drives, and the chilli queens of San Antonio developed,you need a tough cut of beef, cut into little cubes or coarsely ground, chile peppers, either fresh roasted, ordry and reconstitued after toasting, cumin or comino, a chopped oion salt, pepper and some liquid. Brown the beef in a heavy preferably cast iron Dutch oven, set aside Saute the onion, chooped and garlic if you choose, return the neat, add the chili paste (you turn either the fresh roasted or reconstituted dry into a fairly thick paste), add liquid, optional tomatoes or a bit of tomatoe paste, add liquid, cover, simmer or bake until meat is tender. That's just a basics, the usual options being the tomatoes and garlic. From there, add anything ou so desire; spices, beans, mexican unsweetend chocolate. If you like it thicker, corn meal (Masa) cn be added in with the chii paste and will act as a thickener.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:12 pm 
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Thanks for all the tips guys. I really appreciate it!! I'll let you know how it goes.
Renee


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:55 pm 
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I would recommend taking a break from the cutting for a while to get your metabolism back. Eat a higher carb, higher calorie bulking deit for about 4 weeks and drop the cardio. Just do the weights and put a couple pounds of muscle on. Then you can go back to the low carb. Then just add in interval training a little at a time. That will be quicker in the long run.


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