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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:40 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Are there downsides to training under the effects of taurine + caffeine?

Today I knew I needed to train hard (next fight is 3/20, it's 3/12 today) but I was feeling tired. I'd heard that taurine and caffeine have a sympathetic effect in combination. So I got an animo drink from the local store. The drink I bought has 50mg of caffeine, 3000mg of taurine, and assorted b-vitamins and other amino acids.

The effect was pretty amazing. I trained for about 2 solid hours with only one round (5 minutes) break. Otherwise I was doing technique, sparring, more technique, more sparring, etc. and then finished class with tabata dashes, jumps, pushups, and V-ups...and I was still awake. So much so I'm a) definitely drinking one of these before my fight and b) worried about side effects like "not sleeping."

Am I right to be worried? I don't plan on drinking these every day or anything, but if I can safely use them without side effects I'll keep them in my toolbox for when I really need extended energy.

Actually, as an interesting aside, there are dozens of these energy drinks in Japan. Few have sugar, they advertise based on extremely low calories (As low as 10-15 calories). However, most of them contain nicotine! My doesn't, it's why I chose this specific brand...searched the label to avoid nicotine. That does explain why these drinks are so popular with chain-smoking sake-drinking old guys, though.

Peter


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:09 am 
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Well, I can remember back in the early 90's.The then EAS co. (under Phillips at the time) had started adding taurine and selenium to their MRP's and and powders, abd were promoting their synergistist abilities. I looked up taurine in Wikipedia as your question got my interest, and could find a lot of good on it (neuro system), but nothing to suggest anything bad, with caffeine or anything else. Caffeine is pretty standard in any type of energy drink I've seen anywhere. What also used to be very common, was ephedra + caffeine. The US pretty much banned it, but are you sure your drink didn't contain it? Ephedra is pretty widely used in the Far East.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:09 am 
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peter I have read and heard that the drinks are good but they are uppers and that after certain excercises or events there will be a down period where you feel like trash. I drink a red bull right before my flag football games and I never feel the down but then again I don't feel the burst. Supposedly taurine is more potent than caffiene but once again that was something I was told. Not too sure though. You should get a lot of replies.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:06 am 
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Caffeine if I read correctly is suppose to accually allow you to work out harder. I don't remember the exact info. its in a Muscle & Fitness mag at my house. I'll give you the info a little later.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:35 am 
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Caffeine is actually a CNS stimulant, which is why it's in most energy drinks. When I looked up taurine, I noticed it has a lot to do with the neural system as well. Could be they act as synergists. That's for the scientists to hypothesize I guess.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:39 pm 
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There is no problem with lots of caffeine and taurine together. I don't understand what the taurine is for. It helps with cramps and is taken to support a clen or albuterol cycle. Other than that I'm not sure what the point of it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:00 pm 
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I checked the label, didn't find anything that suggested ephedrine.

Last night I had trouble getting to sleep - more than 5 hours after I had the drink I was still too wired. My body felt tired but I couldn't drift off.

So I think I'll use these things very, very sparingly, and avoid drinking them at night when I use them at all. Still, it did work as advertised, I was awake and full of energy.

Peter

(edited because I put something in that was in error, oops)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:21 pm 
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I think you have the right idea of using them sparingly. I used to use Twinlabs Diet Fuel when it was avail for over the counter purposes. I used it to "get up" for a workout. It was an ECA stack (Ephedra-herbal-,Caffeine, Aspirin-white willow bark). Worked great, but I made sure I never got anywhere near the stuff after around 1:00 PM, or I'd never get to sleep.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:48 pm 
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"Caffeine - One supplement everyone's familiar with but few accually think of it as a supplement is Caffeine. While this stimulant can help energize you for the boost you need before training, research shows that caffeine offers bodybuilders more than just an energy jolt. A study from the University of Nebraska found that when subjects took caffeine before testing their strength on the bench press they were stronger by an average 5 lbs than when they bench pressed without first taking caffeine.
In addition, researchers discovered that caffeine blunts muscle discomfort during exercise, so not only will caffeine help you lift more weight in the gym, but it can help you get more reps with more weight. On top of that, caffeine also helps encourage fat-burning during workouts." Supplement with 200-400 mg 1-2 hours before workouts.

"Taurine - Researchers now know that taurine levels in muscle cells are critical for muscle force. It appears that by enhancing the ability of muscles to contract faster with greater force, taurine increases strength. In other words, keeping your taurine keeping your taurine levels high in the gym is essential for maintaining strength as you train.
Numerous studies indicate that taurine also helps to maintain endurance. In fact, some show taurine can increase time to exhaustion by up to 50%. You don't plan on running a marathon any day soon, you say? Bodybuilding is not all strength - it's also about muscle endurance. Less fatigue means more reps, and more reps mean more muscle. Taurine's positive effects on fatigue amay be due to its antioxidant properties, which can prevent muscle fatigue during exercise and aid recovery. in addition, taurine draws more fluid into muscle cell in a similar fashion to creatine.
Taurine levels usually drop during exercise, meaning your strength and endurance will follow suit. But supplementing before workouts will help to maintain muscle levels of taurine throughout your gym session." Supplement with 1-3 grams 1-2 hours before training.

Source: Muscle and Fitness Mag, August 2007 Edition, pg. 221


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:20 pm 
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Thanks guys, yeah, that matches my results, doesn't it? Endless energy, no sleep.

Definitely a pre-fight drink. Post-fight, well, the fight is taking place in a nightclub, I'll just have a beer after to relax, I'll have earned it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:49 am 
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Well there should be no issues with taking caffeine/taurine on a regular basis. Besides possibly not sleeping there shouldn't be any problems unless you plan on drinking one of those and then immediately going to the docto0r to get your BP checked. Honestly after your fight and exercising in general you should be able to sweat all of that caffeine out of your body so my guess is you won't have a problem with sleep. Taurine, thats an AA (no s*** right...) and what ever isn't used will be excreted in the urine and sweat .


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