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 Post subject: Pain killer
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:26 am 
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Guys, I recently came upon this article:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 153404.htm

"Over three months, says Dr. Trappe, the chronic consumption of ibuprofen or acetaminophen during resistance training appears to have induced intramuscular changes that enhance the metabolic response to resistance exercise, allowing the body to add substantially more new protein to muscle."

I have always worked on the assumption that pain killers were not helpful so I've avoided them. Now it looks like that may be wrong.

Obviously pain killers have a place in dealing with acute pain but I'm interested in what your experience has been with pain killers and weight training.

Stu


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:07 am 
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That's interesting Stu, as due to my osteoarthritus, I'm an eight pill (prescription doseage, 2x800 mg daily) a day guy, IBPROFEN. I'd always heard it might have negative effects, but have never noticed any. I do seem to have pretty good recup abilities for my age, and usually do something everyday, if not a hard intense workout, then a GPP type of thing.

One other thing, I sometimes switch over to the acetomycin and stay with that for a while, same difference. Ihave refused for the past 15 years to take any of the narcotic versions that require a prescription. My Dad slipped me some of his vioxx a few years back which I took for a two week trial, and found no effects any better than the other wo.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:37 pm 
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From an athletic trainer's perspective; pain killers are something to be wary about using because it masks pain (i know i know) and that can aggravate an existing injury or lead to a new one.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:53 pm 
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amivan wrote:
From an athletic trainer's perspective; pain killers are something to be wary about using because it masks pain (i know i know) and that can aggravate an existing injury or lead to a new one.


My natural inclination is to want to feel my body, including any pain. It's only if I have a known issue that is causing predictable pain that I consider pain killers so I'm aware of that issue.

I one possible mechanism for the observation in the study caould come from masking the DOMS that everyone feels all the time and possibly allowing people to work out more frequently. I can't see how the painkillers themselves could cause an increase in muscle but higher frequency certainly could.

Tim, if you haven't seen any negative effects, maybe I'll try it for a while. Probably not the dosage you use. I always have some pain from something or other most of the time. It must be that middle age thing.

Stu


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Stu-yeah, it's a middle age thing. I was fine up until about 45, then arthritis set in, ROM's in the right hip started getting terrible, and occasional pain. Now, I have to literally roll out of bed, and go through what KPJ calls static stretching (I never actually realized what the term was until he used it) with a light bar, usually with some complexes just to get things loosened up so I can walk half way comfortably. Iwouldn't be using the IBP if I didn't need to and the Doc hadn't recommended it.
Tim


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:45 am 
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The study is all older people. I wonder if it only works that way on older people.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:11 am 
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Isn't that stuff hard on the liver? Combine that with the beer I like to drink, I'd be scared to take that much, ibuprofren, not beer. MMMM beer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 am 
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I thought that was a lot too, but when I was out at sea, no access to a Dentist, and my tooth abscessed, the onboard med type gave me my first prescription dose along w/ penicillin, and it calmed it down right now, and also told me it was recommended for arthritis as well. A couple of the Drs I've talked to when taking my Dad to all of his various Drs have told me it's cheaper and probably just as good as most of the other pain meds for arthritis that are out there, and safer. The liver is a consideration, though, and IBP is not very compatible w/the aspirin some people take regularly.
Tim


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:10 am 
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Quick question. Is it ok to take IBP for sore muscles after workouts? Also would it actually take away all the soreness or just some I couldn't imagine all of it gone that would be amazing.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:14 am 
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I know a lot of the old timers (with no specific arthritis or other aches or pains) that will take a STANDARD 200 mg dose for that reason, but they take it BEFORE a workout. It might help to some degree to take it after, but you want itin your system prior to getting DOMS. Howeer, lie most anything else, that has a risk. Amivan already pointe out that it will mask pain, and you might not even realize you're pushing too hard and do some damage.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:46 pm 
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What about the antiinflamatory response for something like ibuprofin? I dinged my shoulder up a little a few weeks ago and went to the doctor because it hadn't cleared up with rest and frequent ice packs. She prescribed me peroxicam (20mg once a day), 5 weeks of physical therapy, then an eval with a shoulder surgeon to see what he thinks. The therapist told me to cut out military press but keep up with everything else. I basically don't worry about any shoulder workouts because I get a great workout at the therapist. So far I'm still having intermittent pain, plenty of DOMS from the workouts, and still applying ice some too.


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:34 pm 
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I've been digging on this to try and find how much ibuprofen or acetaminophen they took. The article over at BSU says "The dosages were identical to those recommended by the manufacturers and were selected to most closely mimic what chronic users of these medicines were likely to be taking."

Checking online Advil is "one tablet every 4-6 hours" but you can try 2 tablets, 200mg per tablet, max 6 times a day. So the maximum for ibuprofen seems to be 1200mg a day, but I don't know if that's the recommended level. The BSU story lacks contact information for the doctors who ran the study or I'd just ask them. I'll see if I can't turn up email information for them and ask. The initial report is interesting but vague on what they actually did.

If I'm going to take ibuprofen to treat inflammation and pain I may as well take enough to help get stronger, too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:10 am 
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I can only speak for IBProfen. The man. ecommended dose is 200 mg. A prescription dose is 800 mg. Rather than take some of these presiption drugs, for my osteoarthritis,Doc just has me take 4 X 200 twice a day.
Tim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:11 am 
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Pete, I think the best way to use it is to take enough to minimize pain before your workout and then ignore residual and DOMS after. My thought is that if you are pain free going into your workout, you will work harder in the workout. I don't think there is benefit in painkillers after the workout, other than the pain killing itself.

Stu


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