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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Hi,

so i've been reading alot of John Bernardi's articles after seeing many links to them on this forum and i have some questions.

John states that the two meal combinations should always be:

- Protein with fat (< 10g Carbs)
- Protein with carbohydrates (< 5g fat).

So i look at some of his Protein/Fat meal examples in this article (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_2.htm) and they look like this:

Quote:
Protein plus fat meals (minimal carbs- <10g)

1 can salmon
1 scoop protein powder in water
Vegetables
1 tablespoon of concentrated fish oils

8-12 oz lean beef
Fat free cheese
1 tablespoon of olive oil
Vegetables

1 can tuna fish
1 scoop protein powder
Vegetables
1 tablespoon of concentrated fish oils

2 scoops protein powder in water
1 tablespoon flax oil

Here's a list of good fats and proteins for the protein plus fat meals:

Fats: Concentrated fish oils (PUFA-omega 3), flaxseed oil (PUFA-omega 3 and 6), olive oil (MUFA), canola oil (MUFA and PUFA), fat from nuts (MUFA and PUFA), fat from beef and eggs, animal fat (SFA)

Proteins: beef, salmon, whey, casein, turkey, whole eggs, pork


Now i noticed alot of those included vegetables, which if i'm not mistaken would definately take the carbs over 10g.

Is this some kind of error, or is there an explanation, because John stated in that article
Quote:
High fat with high-carb meals represent the worst possible case scenario.


Thanks for any light shed on this, i'm almost there with the diet, it just needs fine tuning!

Ross


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:32 pm 
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It depends on which vegetables you eat. There are lots of low carb vegetables out there.

The following examples are raw, uncooked measurements.

Asparagus = 3.8g per cup
Turnips = 6.4g per cup
Lettuce = 1.6g per cup
Broccoli = 6.6g per cup
Dill Pickle = 4.1g per cup
Celery = 2.9g per cup
Cauliflower = 5.3g per cup
Cabbage = 5.5g per cup
Brussel Sprouts = 8.9g per cup
Spinach = 3.6g per cup
Squash = 4.0g per cup
Jalapenos = 5.3g per cup

There are lots of low carb vegetables that you can eat. Some are so low in carbohydrates that it takes more energy to digest them than they actually supply.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:40 pm 
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That's right Chris, any time John Berardi specifies "vegetables" that's what he's talking about. If he meant potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc he would have said "starchy vegetables". All the examples you've given are not only low carb, they are also high fibre and high nutrition. You can eat all you want anytime on virtually any diet plan.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:09 pm 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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What he is doing is setting up what he calls "partitioning". I's a newer concept to me, but I like the lower fat/higher in carb first thing in the morning, and post workout with just meat and veg at the others, and have been doing that for years prior to hearing about the partitioning/alternating.Seems to work well for me.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:10 pm 
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Thanks for clearing that up, chris & stuward.

So chances are you'd only eat one specific type of low carb veg with each meal.

I'm going to have to make some soups as i have an issue with the texture of vegetables.

Thanks guys.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:13 pm 
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[quote="cha1n"]Thanks for clearing that up, chris & stuward.

So chances are you'd only eat one specific type of low carb veg with each meal.
End Quote

Not necessarily. I like to mix broccoli, cauliflower and maybe toss in some green beans. You could use any veg combo as long as they were the fribrous non starchy veg.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:16 pm 
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Ok, so you can mix it up, but keep it below 10g carbs?

Ok thanks Tim, i'll get on whfoods and compile some lists of fibrous, non-starchy veg.

Thanks for your help everyone. It's not the busiest forum i've been on, but the quality of information exceeds the others i've visited.

Ross


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:31 pm 
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Don't forget a simple tossed salad; lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, celery, olives, etc. All qualify as low carb veg. Just use a non-creamy dressing. I use olive oil and basalmic vinegar. Creamy dressings often use corn starch. Real mayonnaise is OK.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Your salad sounds great stuward. I love balsamic vinegar!

My favorite bottled dressing is Kraft’s Fat Free Italian. It’s only got 10 calories per tablespoon, and the flavor is incredible. In fact, even if I didn’t care about calorie intake, I’d prefer the Fat Free Italian since it has far more flavor (both in depth and intensity) than regular Italian.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:04 pm 
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My wife found a bottle of Unico basalmic vinegar that had been marked down. It's great but it's almost gone.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:07 am 
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cha1n - if your hopeless and unimaginative in the k-word like I was, then you should consider buying Berardi's "Gourmet Nutrition" book. It has loads of very tasty recipes with instructions that are very easy to follow, and also some great cooking tips and nutrition information. Obviously each meal has the calorie count and ratio of protein fat and carbs in each.

I know I just sounded like a guy in a commercial, holding up a Gourmet Nutrition book with a huge smile and extremely white teeth, telling you how it changed my life. But that is kind of true...

I've got the whole Precision Nutrition 'system', but I think that 'Gourmet Nutrition' is worth the cost of the whole thing.

Don't get me wrong - If you can follow the advice you've already had in this thread you'll do very well.

Just some 'food for thought' ;-)


KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:58 am 
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KPj wrote:
cha1n - if your hopeless and unimaginative in the k-word like I was, then you should consider buying Berardi's "Gourmet Nutrition" book. It has loads of very tasty recipes with instructions that are very easy to follow, and also some great cooking tips and nutrition information. Obviously each meal has the calorie count and ratio of protein fat and carbs in each.

I know I just sounded like a guy in a commercial, holding up a Gourmet Nutrition book with a huge smile and extremely white teeth, telling you how it changed my life. But that is kind of true...

I've got the whole Precision Nutrition 'system', but I think that 'Gourmet Nutrition' is worth the cost of the whole thing.

Don't get me wrong - If you can follow the advice you've already had in this thread you'll do very well.

Just some 'food for thought' ;-)


KPj


Hey KPj,

I have the Gourmet Nutrition Ebook and am going to start using the recipes as much as possible, even though alot of them aren't very practical for work time unless i reheat them in a microwave.

The omletes sound nice, but i'm struggling finding "Turkey Ham" in the UK!

Also some of the meals (when looking at the pie chart split between Protein/Carbs/Fats looks equally split which is strange when i thought it was suppsed to be high in two and low in one.

Just see how it goes, but i definately need to move away from plain rice with plain meat because i can't see myself sticking to it for much longer, it's like torture!

I'm at a massive disadvantage aswell because i can't eat vegetables without almost being sick and the only way i've got around that is making a soup and blending it down.

I've got some tough times ahead!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:32 am 
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I'm in Scotland and I can get Turkey Ham at my local shop. Its made by Bernard Mathews?

As far as i know or can tell it's just thinly sliced Turkey breast so should be able to find a substitute.

The omelets are amazing. I make the Denver Omelet all the time. Also recently made 'Almost Crusted Scallops on tomato-Onion Gratin' - Amazing. One to make if you feel like treating yourself or showing off, which I like to do.

Not sure what you mean about the ratios? I can't remember just now, but the rations may be split into grams - remember that fat has 9 calories per gram where as protein and carbs have 4 / g.

I never used to eat vegetables much at all. With Gourmet Nutrition though, the veggies seem to merge together to create an amazing taste (I guess this happens when you actually cook things!). The tomato-onion gratin in the scallop dish mentioned above is amazing, but it's just tomatoes and onions (i used to HATE onions)! The sprinkle of lemon, olive oil and a little Parmesan makes these things taste fantastic. I'm getting hungry now.

My 'tolerance' for veggies and other good 'natural' food has became very good. It's all about getting rid of bad habits... Just keep at it.

Also, with the PN system, your taught how to prepare food in advance. It's all common sense really, but for me it was a real eye opener as i'm very unorganized. Things like doing a bulk shopping, preparing 3 days worth of veggies in advance, putting them in containers, roasting whole chickens, making meals in bulk (such as the chilli which you make LOADS of servings from), 'supershakes' etc... It's all about planning really.

It all seems like a hell of a lot of work, but it's good when you get into the swing of things.

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:25 am 
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KPJ, the bulk idea is a real time saver. I do it constantlyI make my beg dishes karge enough to last 3 days or so in the fridge, freeze the rest in 2 portion size containers. Meats, same way. Save time on working days. Most travel well with me to work, and when i get home, I just get into the fridge, dish it out, and warm it up. Both the steamer and microwave, and even the good old fashion oven can have them ready in no time.
Tim


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:39 am 
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Yeh i think it's definately going to get more organised, i only realised last night how big the portions. So that will be good, not being cooking constantly!

I do have the bernard and mathews turkey ham here, but it apears to be chopped and reformed Turkey (i think it's something like 65% turkey) which put me off a bit. I guess i could just get a decent slicer and slice some turkey breasts like you suggested!

I'm giving myself a month to aquire all the utensils and generally get into the routine of eating this way. I can see my food bills soring though, costco here i come!


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