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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:31 pm 
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TimD wrote:
Don't forget who owns and edits M and F and Flex, ummm, the Weider's, who sell supplements. I would tend to think their recommendations might be on the high side.
I do agree with the 1 gr/lb as a minimum for a highly active athlete though. Te average Joe may not require that though.
Tim


Yeah, it's definitely all about the money. When reading those mags and I see Chris Cormier doing an ad for Cell-Tech, I can't help but think, "yeah right". Somehow, I just don't think he is relying on vasodilators to get that big. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:36 pm 
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While cutting Jay uses hgh or steroids or w/e is at his disposal. He's saying that and is paid to so the people who advertise protein in that book suck in w/e idiot they possibly can.

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Still, if it were THE way (2g/lb) then there wouldn't be so much debate about it today. The fact that there is so much debate is because it has been done this way for so long, yet today, people are scientifically questioning the reason of it. As I said originally, 2g is often prescribed. I never said it is always prescirbed, or that 2g isn't challenged. I've been reading various BB periodicals for years, and as far back as I can remember, I've always read that 2g is a great rule of thumb for bodybuilding. But I do concede that there are scientific studies that have shown that less than that is adequate.......but it should be noted that those studies weren't done on bodybuilders with monstrous hypertrohy in mind. Typically the study rests on strength or endurance gains.

It's all speculation so nobody holds the right to say you must have at least 2g/lb bw. Certainly you can't trust what a bb says since hes practically guaranteed to be paid to say that.

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In another study, two groups of men consumed different amounts of protein (1.4 g and 2.8 g per kg body weight per day) during a prolonged period of intense physical training. Only the group on the high protein diet significantly increased fat-free body mass.
I don't know the validity of that study. Now if it was done by the AJSM then it would be a different story.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:19 pm 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
While cutting Jay uses hgh or steroids or w/e is at his disposal. He's saying that and is paid to so the people who advertise protein in that book suck in w/e idiot they possibly can.


Not necessarily. Ronnie Coleman says he eats 5lbs of lean meat per day. He didn’t say it was Tyson Chicken, or Omaha Steaks. So he wasn’t paid to say he eats that. Let’s assume that it’s 5lbs of chicken breasts. There is ~0.3g of protein per gram of chicken breast meat. There is 453.5g per pound.

453.5 x 0.3 = 136.05g per lb
136.05 x 5lb = 680.25g of protein per day.

Ronnie weighs in at 287 when competing.

680.25 / 287 = 2.37g of protein per lb of bodyweight.

Off season he clocks in at 320.

680.25 / 320 = 2.12 g of protein per lb of bodyweight.

Had Ronnie said it was 5lbs of MuscleTech Whey, then I’d be skeptical. But he said “lean meat” and as such was not paid for that statement.

Either way, all I said was that it (2g/lb) is often suggested. I never said it was right or wrong, just that bodybuilders do that. And I've shown that they do so, not because they were paid to do it, but it is how they eat. I don't really know if it's right or wrong, but it works for them. Personally, I stick to 1g/lb.....but I'm not aiming to be as massive as Ronnie in the first place.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:57 pm 
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I use protein for the metabolic boost in cutting, and the overall health benefits involved in using it. It also is a readily available meal with a little bit of peanut butter. When you do the math, it comes down to under 80 cents per meal, and well worth it if you get the right tasting stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:30 pm 
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I don't think 5 lbs of meat is off the wall for a big guy. I know that back in college in 68, my roomate was tarting guard, only 225 at the time, but he came close to 4lbs or so everyday, along with pork and beans and anything else he could get his hands on.
After a saturday workout, it was BBQ time and chowdown for the football players pre-season, and they'd go to town. Not too different from a bodybuilder trying to stick on some mass.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:19 am 
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There is nothing unusual about eating 2g/lb. It is at the upper limit, but it works. Going over what you can use is the whole point.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:54 am 
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If FitDay is to be trusted, I usually get around 300g of protein a day at a BW of 185 pounds. Not 2g per pound, that's more like 1.5g. 1g/pound sounds high until I total up my food...I usually hit that just after lunchtime.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:55 am 
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There is nothing unusual about eating 2g/lb. It is at the upper limit, but it works. Going over what you can use is the whole point.
Accually wouldn't the whole point of taking in protein is to get the required protein for muscle protein synthesis?

This is my last comment on this, this is a topic which either side has their minds made and this will keep going back and forth.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:50 am 
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Quote Ironmaiden
Accually wouldn't the whole point of taking in protein is to get the required protein for muscle protein synthesis?
End

You're absolutely correct. There seems to be (and has been ) some question on what that amount is. And the conversation got on to wondering about how some bodybuilder choked down 5 lbs of meat/chicken per day
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:03 am 
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You're absolutely correct. There seems to be (and has been ) some question on what that amount is. And the conversation got on to wondering about how some bodybuilder choked down 5 lbs of meat/chicken per day
I think what happens is these people eat a 5 lb peice of chicken and a good chunk of the protein (AAs) is pissed out or is converted to fat. Not unless they are freaks of nature like Ronnie and can burn all of that.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:13 am 
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groan :roll:

I see you are still missing the point. I'll rest my fingers, and just ask you to read this.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... judice.htm


While we are at it why the major fetish with people eating too much protein? So what if they do. It doesn't hurt anything. Some people like to make sure. We know the amount could be from 1 to 2g. Why not take 2 and make absolutely positively certain you have all you need?

What about the other benefits in the article (aka the missed point)?

If you are getting enough protein, than how could taking BCAA do anything for you?

I think someone has been fed too much propaganda while doing colon cleanse, magnet therapy and fung shway.

Sir, step away from the wheat grass and organic bean sprouts. We're also going to have to confiscate the rasta hat. It's for your own good. You'll thank me later.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:53 am 
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While we are at it why the major fetish with people eating too much protein?
My issue with it is there is no science to say that 2g per day is beneficial or needed. Like I stated before all you are going to do is piss out those AAs. Also you are wasting $$ aiming for 400g of protein in a day. So why would I promote that much or accept it when there is no science to say its any better than 2g/kg for building muscle?

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What about the other benefits in the article (aka the missed point)?
Wern't we talking specifically the amount needed for positive muscle protein synthesis? Also I know this is Berardi but it would be nice to see the accual numbers.

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If you are getting enough protein, than how could taking BCAA do anything for you?
I recall in a recent Amino Acids article that I stated it wasn't necissary to include BCAAs supplementation.

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I think someone has been fed too much propaganda while doing colon cleanse, magnet therapy and fung shway.
Thanks for the personal attack but I'm basing this off of simple numbers and common sense. If you used all the protein you were consuming you could put on 100lbs of muscle in a year.

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Sir, step away from the wheat grass and organic bean sprouts. We're also going to have to confiscate the rasta hat. It's for your own good. You'll thank me later.
I'm not sure what you think of me but if you are implying that I'm an idiot who is gullible to everything I read you would be mistaken.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Not everyone is trying to save money. So that is only valid if that is the primary goal.

I am just trying to figure out what the obsession is with people eating too much meat. Just having a guess. It's usually those new age, hippie kind of people that are into that.

The point is there are other benefits to protein then stopping malnutrition.

Why would it matter if someone wanted to eat 5 pounds of chicken? Some people just really like chicken. I don't see a problem with it. Plus it gives a bit of an anabolic boost and they gain less fat on the bulk. It sounds good to me.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:23 am 
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I have no problem with anyone eating whatever they want to eat. If you want to eat 5 lb., or 10 .b, or whatever of meat a day, and add supplement shakes and tuna, too, and if you understand that you may not really be benefiting from doing so, and if you can afford it, and if you are not making things difficult for the other people in your life, that's just fine.

But when people imply to some young, eager guy that he really needs to do that, it's not fair, and it's not nice. I have no problem with people eating that way, just with people recommending it to others without scientific support.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:32 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
But when people imply to some young, eager guy that he really needs to do that, it's not fair, and it's not nice. I have no problem with people eating that way, just with people recommending it to others without scientific support.


I agree with you. There should be a distinction made between minimum requirements for the person's specific goal and optimal requirements if money is no object.


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