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 Post subject: Bulking Diet
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:47 am 
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This question is primarily aimed at Ironman, but of course I appeciate all replies.

Ironman, I've tried the cutting diet you suggesed and got good results. You've said your bulking diet is different, and somewhat Zone-like in proportions. Can you give details? I'm thinking of trying to push my weight up without gaining as much fat as I did last time...


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:19 am 
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Well sorry that I'm not ironman but what you could do to prevent that is to stay away from starchy refined foods. Eat a lot but make it foods that take a while to digest.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:27 am 
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peter im superman so I may be better than ironman :wink: haha. Anyways if you want to gain weight slowly I'm sure what ironman tells you would work. I'm an impatient guy so when I bulked up I gained fat as well. I gained a crap load of weight. BUUUUUUUt not close to all musce. Let me know about size gains because I'm not going to do the get fat thing ever again right now I'm toning down, dieting sucks but if the slow weight gain thing works for you let me know.

John


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:11 am 
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It all depends on how you handle carbs. I get fat real easy so I keep mine kind of low. I eat most of them at breakfast and around the workout.

You could try keeping your calories close to the same, but adding low GI carbs to breakfast and some high GI after workout.

I wouldn't worry too much about the fat. You can drop it again. You might as well put some muscle on since you have to let your eye heal.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:00 am 
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Yeah, but Ironman, it's almost Summer....(whine)...my abs! My precious abs!

Seriously, I'd like gain, but slowly. I've got like a year off from fighting, so if I can gain 10 kg over the next year I can fight at Cruiserweight (91kg) instead of Light Heavyweight (83kg), so my goal is to get to 93kg or so and diet down. If that proves unworkable, getting to 87 kg or so would be fine, I can drop to 83 exactly for fighting by losing water. Usually I end up fighting a few kilos underweight, and I'd rather carry the muscle.

I don't handle lots of carbs well...so then what I should do is basically eat the high-protein high-fat diet I eat now, and slowly add in low-GI carbs on top and see how I do gain wise? Naturally, high GI carbs after my workout.


I'm currently doing 2 days a week of high-carb moderate fat moderate-to-high protein (around 1g a pound), and 5 days a week of high-fat, high protein (1.5g a pound or more), low carb (under 60 carbs total, minus fiber it's more like 30g).


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:44 am 
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Pete, I was staying out of this waiting for Ironman to chime in, and basically, we look at this very similarly. I can't deal with a lot of starch or I get bloated and put on fat. I've bulked before on a lowered carb thing. Basically, what Ironman told you, just upping calories somewhat, but every 4th or 5th day I go for some higher carbs/starch, reduce the fat to around 20 % for a day or two, then go back to low carb. Similar to a CKD. It's worked for me in the past. In your situation, on one day you might want to visit the corner noodle bowl vendor .
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:20 pm 
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Sounds like my current plan will work, I just have to add some calories and see what happens.

I like that approach. Simple, anyway, and it should be relatively easy to track my progress.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:23 am 
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I think you got the right idea. Just add in a little carbs. That should let you do a slow but clean bulk.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:58 am 
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I actually just read up on a mass gain program from a back issue of Performance Menu (Issue 17). They offered up a few diets - from a strict Zone diet to a cram-yourself-full-of-protein diet. One of them was basically this:

5-7 meals a day, low carb, each meal having 40-50g of protein, all the fat you can stand, and all the fibrous veggies you can get down. Every 3-5 days, do a carb-up of 300-500g of carbs (either all day or in a few meals) while you moderate the fat (and even the protein if you want to make it easier to fit in the carbs).

Another one of them is basically the same with 2g-3g of protein per pound of lean bodyweight plus a high-carb high-protein post workout shake.

So I guess I'm on the right track.

Thanks! I just downed a muscle milk, whey protein, creatine, banana, and yogurt shake, post-workout. On my way...

Peter

(That PM mass gain plan is interesting, actually, since it's centered on O-lifts and O-lift accessories.)


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:49 am 
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I don't see anything out of the ordinary being centered on lifting. Dr. Mauro DiPasquale came up with the Anabolic and later a tweaked version called the metabolic diet for powerlifters, with cutting and bulking phases, and the bulking phase was basically your option 1. lots of protein,fat, veg, every 5th and 6 th day carb up.
Tim


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:53 am 
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It's just that I'd never seen a bulking plan centered on O-lifting before, the "mass gain" programs I've seen are more bodybuilding oriented.


One more question - does it make a difference if my carb-up days are on heavy, max-effort workout days or not? Right now sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Either way I get a carb-and-protein shake after my workout.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:17 am 
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IMO, your heavy carb days MUST be your heaviest lifting days. That's when your body is most anabolic. From the meal just before your workout up to 24 hours after, your body will benefit from the extra carbs and build muscle. Any other time, even cardio days, net calories will go to fat.

You could debate high intensity/low volume (ME days) vs high volume/lower intensity (DE or RE days) as both will build muscle. As to which is more anabolic, I can't say. I would go high carb or at least moderate carb on both, but low carb on cardio days. Keep protein high every day.

Stu


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:08 am 
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Good point Stu. Unfortunately I've got a dietary constraint in that I get one-two homemade Japanese style meals a week at work, usually on Monday and Tuesday but the days sometimes vary. Since they are carb-heavy meals, I tend to just make those carb-up days anyway. One of those days is usually a heavy lifting day which works out.

I suppose I could skip the homemade meals, but really, I don't want to. They're too good...I'd rather bulk slower or cut slower than skip them.


I broke out ME days from when I'd be doing metcon and cardio - yeah, I definitely prefer to have low-carb meals on the days I do metcons and long-distance cardio, I just feel physically better than when I go carb-heavy.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:27 am 
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I can relate. On Wednesday, my cafeteria at work has stir frys. Taste great and high carbs. I just make sure I schedule a workout that morning to take advantage of it. Spaghetti is one of my favorite meals and once a week or so we have it at home. It will fall on the day it falls on. My abs are not worth missing spaghetti for.

Stu


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:33 am 
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Another question - I'm cycling high-carb days (1-2 a week) and low-carb days (the other days). I'm rarely topping out over 60 carbs a day on my low-carb diet, usually more like 50, half of which is dietary fiber.

On my low carb days, do I need to worry about fat consumption? For example, I'm often still getting around 35-45% of my calories from fat on my "high carb" days. Most of this is from good sources - fish with lots of EPA/DHA, lean meats, incidental fats in stuff like veggies and flax seeds, fat from my Muscle Milk. But still, I'm taking in more than 1/3 of my calories from fat, clearing over 100g of fat on any given day, usually more.

Is that a no-no? Or am I worrying over nothing as long as I get my carbs from good sources and get my minimum 1g a pound of protein? Does the type of fat matter (I'm thinking - not really, if the total doesn't matter the breakup doesn't really matter either)?

Peter


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