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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:14 pm 
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No, I don’t think it’s related to water. It has been suggested that it is because caffeine liberates internal calcium stores in the muscle. Calcium is required for muscle contraction, and it must be reabsorbed for relaxation. Creatine is the energy source that aids in the release or reabsorption of calcium used in muscle contraction and relaxation. So, if caffeine affects the calcium levels in your muscles, then all the creatine in the world won’t matter since the calcium which it works with has been disrupted.

The weird thing is, if caffeine liberates calcium, wouldn’t that make your contractions stronger since more calcium is available?

However, if caffeine is a liberator of calcium, does that mean caffeine makes it harder for your muscles to reabsorb calcium and relax? Since caffeine liberates calcium, it does so for all muscles in the body. This would mean, in theory, a synergist muscle that uses the calcium to contract would be affected by an antagonist muscle that needs to reabsorb calcium and relax.

When you curl a dumbbell, your triceps need to relax in order for your biceps to flex the arm. If the triceps don’t relax fast enough, then they are adding opposing tension to the flexion of the elbow thus fighting the movement meaning it will be harder to do. If this is the case, then the gains of creatine could be negated by an opposing muscle that can’t relax fast enough.

I’m not sure if I buy this theory, since it proposes that just taking calcium on its own should make you weaker? Either way, it is definitely interesting stuff. I'd really like some more definitive answers on the matter! :grin:

http://www.creatinemonohydrate.net/crea ... ter_7.html


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:23 am 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
Just use post workout there is no point in taking it pre workout. Taking post will get your muscles 'loaded' for the next session.

On a side note I never understood this whole loading phase. Take 30g a day for a week so you can waste all your creatine. But it is recommended.


I do full body workouts 3 days a week, would there be any need to take creatine on non-workout days. Or would my muscles still be loaded for my next days workout?

Also, I mentioned taking creatine pre-workout because I read that it would give energy and strength during workout if taken about a half hour to an hour before working out.

Thanks for your advice!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:45 am 
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Sooo don't take creatine at the same time as youre taking caffeine or no caffeine at all? I could cut it for the cycle if need be, but its usually something in my preworkout to negate any variances in my workout quality.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:36 am 
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brook011 wrote:
Sooo don't take creatine at the same time as youre taking caffeine or no caffeine at all? I could cut it for the cycle if need be, but its usually something in my preworkout to negate any variances in my workout quality.


I don't know for sure, but from what I've read, it seems that you can take caffeine, just don't take it close to a workout if you're also using creatine. This way you get the positive affects of caffeine during the day when you aren't working out, then stay away from it 1-2 hours before a workout so that caffeine's effect is diminished and creatine can do it's job.

Studies show that caffeine doesn't diminish phosphocreatine levels in the muscle. So taking caffeine doesn't flush creatine, but instead, it somehow interferes with how creatine works. So it seems to make sense that if you avoid caffeine before a workout, then creatine can do its work.

That's what I'm getting from the limited data available anyway. It seems to be a timing issue. I know I was taking my second ECA stack of the day 30 minutes to 1 hour before I worked out, so it makes sense.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:19 am 
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Quote:
I do full body workouts 3 days a week, would there be any need to take creatine on non-workout days. Or would my muscles still be loaded for my next days workout?
Your muscles will stay saturated for awhile after you stop creatine supplementation but if you want to take a 2-3 grams that would be fine.

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Also, I mentioned taking creatine pre-workout because I read that it would give energy and strength during workout if taken about a half hour to an hour before working out.
Creatine to the uninformed seems to have the ability to do many things such as be a stimulant which means add strength which it doesn't or it is equivalent of steroids to some morons. It adds more ATP-CP so you can get 2-3 extra reps in an exercise. Thats all creatine does.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:46 am 
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So, a few days in, is more athletic/cardiovascular endurance an initial benefit of creatine, or was I just having a really good HIIT day?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:11 am 
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Creatine will only help anaerobic respiration. Your body uses glycogen during aerobic and creatine phosphate during anaerobic. It would be useless for a marathon runner to supplement but beneficial to a sprinter or even during HIIT.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Quote:
Also, I mentioned taking creatine pre-workout because I read that it would give energy and strength during workout if taken about a half hour to an hour before working out.
Creatine to the uninformed seems to have the ability to do many things such as be a stimulant which means add strength which it doesn't or it is equivalent of steroids to some morons. It adds more ATP-CP so you can get 2-3 extra reps in an exercise. Thats all creatine does.[/quote]

Oh my not the "S" word :eek: No need for that!

But 2-3 extra reps are 2-3 extra reps! - I'll take what I can get.

Thanks for your help on this!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:01 am 
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Note that if you're not working to get those extra reps and extra weight when you're using creatine, it has no benefit for you when you come off of it. Have to use it hard when you have it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:44 am 
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Quote:
Note that if you're not working to get those extra reps and extra weight when you're using creatine, it has no benefit for you when you come off of it.
What benefits are you referring to? All creatine does is provide more energy which give you more reps or just a longer duration of anaerobic respiration which will allow you to build muscle faster.

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Have to use it hard when you have it.
Like I already stated creatine is nothing like steroids. You don't have to lift like crazy while on creatine. Creatine will not increase muscle protein synthesis so all you will do is injury yourself.If you do your normal routine to failure you have gotten the full benefit of creatine.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:50 pm 
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I believe the "benefits" referred too goes to the fact that in addition to energy help, creatine draws in water like a magnet, makes the muscles a bit fuller, and in turn, do to intracellular tension, adds a bit of a strength boost.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Thanks Tim. I'm not saying its going to magically make you grow muscle, but if you don't work your routines to failure, or you're lazy in the gym, its not going to grow muscle for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:46 am 
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but if you don't work your routines to failure, or you're lazy in the gym, its not going to grow muscle for you.
That happens whether you are on any supps or not.

Quote:
I believe the "benefits" referred too goes to the fact that in addition to energy help, creatine draws in water like a magnet, makes the muscles a bit fuller, and in turn, do to intracellular tension, adds a bit of a strength boost.
Supposably creatine ethyl ester doesn't cause the bloating like monohydrate. In theory doesn't that mean that you will reap greater benefits from monohydrate due to the intracellular tension it will cause over EE?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:23 pm 
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In theory I guess. I'd say I would know by the end of 4 weeks how this is working out, but my creatine brand has several types along with some citrine mallate and ALA, so I couldn't really use my log for figuring out benefits if any of just CEE.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:36 am 
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Thanks to you all for your advice and expertise!


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