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 Post subject: Hydroxycut: Snake Oil?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:38 pm 
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What are people's opinions on hydroxycut. Is it an effective fat burner? or does it just make you cut water (as the name implies). Has anyone ever had any success with it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:35 am 
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In my personal experience with fat burners, they are only really good for killing appetite and giving you energy on less food. It's up to the person taking the pills to setup a proper diet. I've taken a few personally where I almost felt like I had to force myself to eat meals.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:09 am 
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It's pretty much the best you will get besides going for ephedra products or illegal drugs like clen. A buddy of mine took hydroxycut and it made him sweaty all the time, maybe raised his bmr, and made him real hungry.


Last edited by ironmaiden708 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:06 am 
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Sweaty? That reminds me of when I initially used ephedra based hydroxycut.


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 Post subject: hmmmm... fat burners
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:46 am 
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I actually do not know much about the science of how fat burners work. I know thermogenic compounds increase body temperature which increases energy used by sweat glands to sweat.

With green tea for example! Green tea is famous for fat burning... BUT BIOCHEMICALLY HOW DOES IT WORK!!!??? Most information says green tea is so high in antioxidants that it elicits an increase in metabolism... but where is the link b/w antioxidants and metabolism???

I would be oh so happy if someone could point out where green tea plays a part in:
Fatty acid beta oxidation, glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, the krebs cycle or electron transport...
I've wondered this for a long time and my biochemistry instructor said he was clueless where the hype comes from.

I know green tea contains caffeine which can inhibit some fat absorption... lol any help is awesome.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:44 am 
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http://www.actabit.com/diet-nutrition/h ... eight-loss

The fat loss properties of green tea are not proven. The caffiene has a small contribution to raising metabolism but it's not a lot, and it's not specific to green tea; coffee and other teas have the same benefit. There may be anti-inflamitory properties that could give a benefit similar to fish oil. There definately needs to be more study on this. The benefits seem to be anecdotal.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:16 pm 
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In my head, I picture my bodys mechanics being wound up faster like a cartoon tinkertoy when I try to think of how caffeine makes your metabolism speed up. Thats my extent of my knowledge :)


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 Post subject: more research needed
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Well thanks for the post, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is confused on where green tea's hype comes from. This being said... I love green tea! I can't say whether or not it helps me to burn fat, but if it does, great!

Again though if anyone finds something on green tea's effect on beta oxidation or maybe contributes some kind of enzyme to glycerol hydrolysis... it would be awesome to look at.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:17 pm 
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Actually, Green Tea supplementation has been shown to increase fat burning by 17% and insulin sensitivity by 13%. This study was published in March of this year.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18326618

However, they were using Green Tea supplements in the range of 890mg. Which means you’d need to take Green Tea pills like Mega-T that has a 775mg blend to see these results. I take the Green Tea pills, drink Green Tea at work, and Iced Tea (a black tea) at home, and I can tell the difference. It's not as dramatic as an ECA stack, but it does help.

A thread here about it.
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4766

Another study suggesting Green Tea increases thermogenesis beyond the effects of just caffeine.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/6/1040

And another study.
http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v15/n ... 7176a.html

Another study that proposes how Green Tea might work. As of now, it is not entirely understood.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT00611416
Quote:
Several potential mechanisms responsible for the altered energy and fat metabolism have been proposed. Dulloo et al. (1999) have suggested a synergistic interaction between catechins and caffeine due to sympathetically released noradrenaline (NA). Since catechins are known to be capable of inhibiting catechol O-methyltransferase (COMT) (the enzyme that degrades NA) (Borchardt & Huber, 1975), and caffeine to inhibit trancellular phosphodiesterases (enzymes that break down NA-induced cAMP), it is proposed that the green tea extract, via its catechins polyphenols and caffeine, is effective in stimulating thermogenesis by relieving inhibition at different control points along the NA-cAMP axis. Taken together, both caffeine and tea catechins would be expected to increase and/or prolong the stimulatory effects of norepinephrine on energy and lipid metabolism.


Last edited by Chris_A on Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Quote:
I know thermogenic compounds increase body temperature which increases energy used by sweat glands to sweat.
Thats basically what clen does as well but its effects are much greater than that of your average caffeine filled fat burners. Also appetite goes down as well from being in a state of higher body temp.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:09 pm 
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clen, clenbutorol?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:18 pm 
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clenbuterol yep, good stuff


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:37 pm 
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ironmaiden708 wrote:
clenbuterol yep, good stuff


Do you take it? Where do you get it? It seems it's an internet only item?


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 Post subject: good studies
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:47 am 
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Bravo. I'm glad you didn't just post studies that show correlation b/w green tea and fat loss. I completely agree that green tea burns fat, I wanted to know how.

Here are some of the proposed connections from the articles:

(Fat oxidations were due to sympathetic nerve-induced thermogenesis caused by the inhibition of catechol O-methyltransferase activity).

or

(Ajay et al. proposed that flavonoids containing EGCG exert a vasorelaxant action causing the release of nitric oxide and prostaglandin)

This is good stuff. Nice post.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:35 am 
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clen is out there if you know where to look. I think albuterol is better. It has to be the continuous release though. Volmax is the brand name. The ECA stack is good. It is better to get it all separate. Get a good ephedrine like vasopro. Then your standard caffeine pill and regular aspirin. It is not hard to find pharmacies that will sell volmax without a prescription. Clen is harder, but it has worse sides anyway. The ephedrine is the easiest, it 100% legal. The only catch is, you have to fill out a form and fax it and your ID back to them. You are also limited to a certain number of packages. It's because they are worried about people cooking up meth with it.

T4/synthroid is good if you have a boarderline thyroid. T3/cytomel works great from what I hear, but you have to run it some test with it to prevent muscle loss.


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