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 Post subject: insulin spike
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:38 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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people are always going on about insulin spikes and I don't really know what they're talking about. As i understand it, you get a post exercise insulin spike - which is good. But then carbs give you some kind of insulin spike - which is bad.

Why is it good? Why is it bad? What causes it? How does understanding it help my cause to become a hulking great powerhouse?

I don't understand, so someone please enlighten me

thanks
Bob


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Insulin regulates glucose and it also is anabolic, meaning that it supports muscle growth. After exercise, glycogen is depleted. Getting an insulin spike at this time allows for increased protein uptake which encourages more muscle growth. At any other time, high insulin will just encourage fat accumulation and could lead to insulin resitance and possibly diabetes. The carbs after workout need protein to work. That's critical. The insulin spike is of no use by itself.

An alternate theory suggests that after intense exercise, growth hormone is produced. Insulin would interfere with that and the effect is less growth than you would get from a short fast after workout. David Barr is a proponent of this theory. His site www.raisethebarr.net is down so I can't find his articles. His book is here: http://www.staleytraining.com/store/boo ... -index.htm

That's probably more confusing than helpful but maybe some of the others guys can add their opinions.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:19 pm 
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I have recently been putting Hershery's Choco syrup in my PWO shake and lowering overall calories. Drink as soon as I get home, wait 50-75 mins to eat a full meal, testing out this theory.

I'm a soft 222 @ 6'1" as of yesterday morning. (And that scale is lighter than any other on earth by roughtly 3-4 pounds.)

I will report personal results in two or three weeks. My cals will be going back up soon, 10-14 days. Just putting my fat gain in check.

So all I offer is anetdotal evidence, and sorry for spelling like a child, I'm at work (ie: no firefox.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:41 pm 
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How do fruit/vegetable sugars work compared to other carbs? It's my understanding they don't spike your insulin as much as carbs from other sources (simple carbs, refined grains and dairy).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:29 pm 
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They do the same thing, just somewhat less so.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:39 pm 
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nygmen wrote:
I have recently been putting Hershery's Choco syrup in my PWO shake and lowering overall calories. Drink as soon as I get home, wait 50-75 mins to eat a full meal, testing out this theory.


What theory are you testing? You're eating less overall, but adding more chocolate syrup? Is this like hoosegow's twizzler diet?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Rucifer wrote:
How do fruit/vegetable sugars work compared to other carbs? It's my understanding they don't spike your insulin as much as carbs from other sources (simple carbs, refined grains and dairy).


I think I just said this a couple of days ago but fructose does not spike insulin. It works by a different process. Vegetables contain fibre which tempers the insulin response.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:44 pm 
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frogbyte wrote:
nygmen wrote:
I have recently been putting Hershery's Choco syrup in my PWO shake and lowering overall calories. Drink as soon as I get home, wait 50-75 mins to eat a full meal, testing out this theory.


What theory are you testing? You're eating less overall, but adding more chocolate syrup? Is this like hoosegow's twizzler diet?
That's a silly idea. Everyone knows that if you try to deep-fry chocolate-covered twizzlers, the chocolate is just melted off.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:55 pm 
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frogbyte wrote:
nygmen wrote:
I have recently been putting Hershery's Choco syrup in my PWO shake and lowering overall calories. Drink as soon as I get home, wait 50-75 mins to eat a full meal, testing out this theory.


What theory are you testing? You're eating less overall, but adding more chocolate syrup? Is this like hoosegow's twizzler diet?


With the lower cals, if I still gain lean mass the insulin spike works.

Shoot if my overall weight stays roughtly the same and my body comp visably improves then it works FOR ME, at least IN MY MIND.

Again, I'm not saying this will work for anyone else, or at all. All anecdotal.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Jungledoc wrote:
frogbyte wrote:
nygmen wrote:
I have recently been putting Hershery's Choco syrup in my PWO shake and lowering overall calories. Drink as soon as I get home, wait 50-75 mins to eat a full meal, testing out this theory.


What theory are you testing? You're eating less overall, but adding more chocolate syrup? Is this like hoosegow's twizzler diet?
That's a silly idea. Everyone knows that if you try to deep-fry chocolate-covered twizzlers, the chocolate is just melted off.


Doc you just invented Twizzlers with the choco INSIDE of them... mmmm.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:01 pm 
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stuward wrote:
Rucifer wrote:
How do fruit/vegetable sugars work compared to other carbs? It's my understanding they don't spike your insulin as much as carbs from other sources (simple carbs, refined grains and dairy).


I think I just said this a couple of days ago but fructose does not spike insulin. It works by a different process. Vegetables contain fibre which tempers the insulin response.


I see. Sorry for the repeat. I just tend to eat a lot of fruit (prolly on avg 4 servings a day) when I am maintaining. I don't really gain weight from it but wondering if it had the same effect. I do have a little of a sweet tooth and usually use fruit to satisfy it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Well, keep us informed, I might be inclined to try post-WO sugar if/when my fat loss plateaus. Ever since I stopped consuming bread/milk, I've lost almost exactly 10 pounds in 2 months. I don't really want to lose weight either, just change composition. Before I go experimenting I need to level off with a baseline if I'm going to measure it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:01 pm 
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I think I get it: So Sugar spikes your insulin, but when you've exercised this is good because your body's knackered and wanting lots of nutrients and the carbs help shunt loads of protein into your system

Does eating sugar always spike your insulin or is it just post-exercise?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:08 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
I think I get it: So Sugar spikes your insulin, but when you've exercised this is good because your body's knackered and wanting lots of nutrients and the carbs help shunt loads of protein into your system

Does eating sugar always spike your insulin or is it just post-exercise?


LOL...you said knackered :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:05 pm 
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robertscott wrote:

Does eating sugar always spike your insulin or is it just post-exercise?


Yeah, you should really only eat sugar post workout. Or else, like stu said, you can get insulin resistance and get FAT lol

After a workout your body wants Carbs because your glycogen stores are depleted. You could just take protein which will cause the protein to convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis but it's easier to just take Dextrose, which is nice and cheap. You also probably want protein to just build muscle which it won't do if you just take protein PW, unless you take another one a bit after.


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