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 Post subject: does casein cause cancer
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:26 am 
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Hi,

I don't know if someone has already asked this question on this forum ( my apologies if it has already been answered earlier)

My question is, I recently bought some ON casein protein and came across so many articles on the web suggesting that casein promotes cancer . The casein product by ON has a gum blend of Xanthan gum, Carrageenans and cellulose which have their own dangers /side effects !!

Now I am afraid of using the product altogether. Is this casein-cancer link true ?

Also does whey protein also have any such dangers? ( although I know whey is safe but just need to get a clarification from the experts)

Vishal K


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:05 am 
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All of those ingredients have been in use for a long time. I wouldn't worry about them. It's still a processed food product and therefore less healthy than real food.

The cancer issue revolves around the acidifying effect of the casein. Meat, dairy and grains in general raise the acidity level of the body. Vegetables and fruit reduce it. You need to be balanced. This is a very one dimensional view. If you eat a balanced diet heavily weighted to meat and vegetables, you should have no problems. I would be more concerned about sugar and lack of vitamin D. Those promote cancer dramatically. It will always be better to get your casein straight from milk, but that's not always convenient. Just make sure you're taking it because it make sense as part of your overall diet.

Whey is also an artificial food product but is in wider use than casein. I've never heard of any health issues with whey but anything eaten in excess is harmful.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Quote:
mrvishalkhandwala wrote:
Hi,

I don't know if someone has already asked this question on this forum ( my apologies if it has already been answered earlier)

My question is, I recently bought some ON casein protein and came across so many articles on the web suggesting that casein promotes cancer .


Vishal,

Casein causing cancer is absurd.

That sounds like it came out of The China Study (the book) by Dr T. Colin Campbell. There is some good informative information in this book.

However, Campbell comes across in the book as an overzellous Vegan Cult Member. Campbell appears to let his emotions override logic.

Next, EXACTLY which articles state that casein cause cancer? Specifically what research references are cited in each of these articles that clearly demonstarte that caseinate cause cancer?

What are the names of these individuals who developed cancer after taking casienate?

80% of the composition of milk is caseinate. With all the milk sold/consumed by men, women and children each that that would indicated caseinate cancer should be killing thousand of us each day.

So, where are the bodies?

What I am saying here is use a litte common sense.

Quote:
The casein product by ON has a gum blend of Xanthan gum, Carrageenans and cellulose which have their own dangers /side effects !!


You are one of the few that reads the labels. I give you a 4 star rating (out of 5) for doing that.

Just as you read the label to check what you taking, do the same when you read an article. Read the references.

The references are the "ingredients".

If an article does NOT cite references, it is NOT a reputable article. Even articles/books with references may not be reputable if the references are faulty.

That is why after checking the references you go read the references.

In my review of the information on the ingredients you listed, I didn't see any thing regarding them having "their own dangers..." meaning I don't see anything that indicates you going to get cancer, etc. form these ingredients.

Quote:
Now I am afraid of using the product altogether. Is this casein-cancer link true ?


Again, it's absurd.

Quote:
Also does whey protein also have any such dangers? ( although I know whey is safe but just need to get a clarification from the experts)


Caseinate and whey come from milk. Milk products, according to your research/The China Study, causes cancer. Thus, you could conclude that drinking whey will give you cancer just as caseinate would, right?

Whey has been shown to have some effective health benefits. http://www.naturalways.com/whey-protein.htm

Stu presents some good information in his post.

Kenny Croxdale


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:54 am 
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*


Last edited by mrvishalkhandwala on Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:38 am 
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Quote:
mrvishalkhandwala wrote:
Thnx for the answer .. But a week into taking casein , i have noticed that its acidic nature does cause some minor problems in the stomach and it has some laxative like properties. .. Even the label mentions that casein has acidic properties ..


Mr,

Your limited knowledge is producing incorrect conclusions. You conclusions resemble the story of the aliens who go see a basketball game.

They then report back to their leaders that playing basketball makes you tall and sitting in the bleachers make you short.

The take home message is that "snapshots" of information lead you to the wrong answer. This is where you are now.

Stu touched on acidic foods in his post, "Meat, dairy and grains in general raise the acidity level of the body." That means whey is acidic.

So, if you concerned with acidic food stop consuming/eating meats, dairy, and grains.

Quote:
I agree that any artificial food supplement is not good for long term use .


Casinate comes from milk, milk comes from cows, cows are not artificial.

Quote:
I see bodybuilders in my gym taking as any as 3-4 shakes a day which according to me is an unhealthy lifestyle as too much of protein makes your kidneys /liver work harder which can cause some damage in the long term ( my common sense says so ...). Externally , one may look muscular after long term protein use .. but i think what happpens to your internal organs is also very important.


High protein intake does not damage you kidneys/lifer. There is NO documention that show that.

High protein intake is ONLY detrimmental to those with health problems...Heatlhy individuals have NO problems with high protein intake.

Quote:
The articles on casein causing cancer are from " The China Study " which i came across while surfing the web and thus i was a bit concerned about the effects of casein...also the "gum blend" in the product also has various articles on the web .. (Some articles compared casein to "tar" as it forms a gel and sticks to the lining in the stomach .)


I ask for SPECIFIC data/articles from you on caseinate causing cancer and you produced nothing but hearsay.

The ONLY source you provided was The China Study. In my oritinal post, I noted that source. So, you have yet to provide one source.

Also, I read The China Study, cover to cover. You eveidently a brief synopysis. That brief snyopysis is the "snapshot" version of the book. As we've discussed, snapshots DON'T give you the whole picture.

Quote:
The problem with searching for info on nutritional supplements on the web is that if there are 10 sites which list casein as bad for health, then there are an equal no of sites which label it as harmless !!


I understand the confusion.

Quote:
I've been taking these protein shakes for some time now but have changed my lifestyle and workouts to focus on "internal" as well as "external" health and I think whey if taken post workout , just once a day ,is more than enough to keep healthy rather than drinking it 3-4 times a day.


"External" and "internal" health are tied together for the most part. One uusually affects the other.

Whey is acidic. So, if you concerned with acidic food you might want ot rethink taking it.

Kenny Croxdale


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:15 am 
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At first I was going to say that this acidity discussion is ludicrous since anything you dump into your stomach makes it LESS acidic - you cannot possibly eat something more acidic than stomach acid - it'd burn your mouth and throat.

By looking at some of the articles that apparently the OP saw as scary, I see that they're talking about the effect of foods on the acidity of your blood. I think this article sums it up nicely: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... oral2.html

Your body cannot allow your blood acidity to drift, or you will die. But the take-away of that article is that if you're consuming lots of protein, you might want to consume extra bone minerals. (I already do.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:50 am 
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Quote:
frogbyte wrote:
At first I was going to say that this acidity discussion is ludicrous since anything you dump into your stomach makes it LESS acidic - you cannot possibly eat something more acidic than stomach acid - it'd burn your mouth and throat.

By looking at some of the articles that apparently the OP saw as scary, I see that they're talking about the effect of foods on the acidity of your blood. I think this article sums it up nicely: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... oral2.html


Frogbyte,

I understand the acid/alkaline food issue.

However, that is not going to be a problem for any of us. According to many articles the end of the world/Doomsday will take place in 2012.

The Eskimo's diet was primarily acidic (was meaning until we introduced them to McDonalds). Evidetnly, their acidic diet took a while to kill them. I figure Doomsday is going to kill us/you before an all acidic diet does.

I figure if the internet articles are right about caseinate causing cancer, the Doomsday 2012 projection is on the money.

Quote:
Your body cannot allow your blood acidity to drift, or you will die. But the take-away of that article is that if you're consuming lots of protein, you might want to consume extra bone minerals. (I already do.)


Good point. As Dr Johnny Bowden says, "Consume vegetables and fruits of color". The majority of the "Foods of Color" are pimarily alkaline, low in carbohydrates/calories, contain fiber, and have anti-oxidents.

Kenny Croxdale


Last edited by Kenny Croxdale on Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:03 pm 
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Frogbyte, you're right about the acidity. Your body will neutralize the acidity with Calcium drawn from the body. To prevent that, theoretically, simply consume more calcium or increase consumption of fruit an veg. Since calcium loss is a significant concern to many, the obvious simplistic answer is to minimize meat and dairy (for some reason whole grains are still recommended), and take artificial supplements.

This is the conventional theory: http://www.jewishveg.com/schwartz/pcmyths.html

The problem is that this reduces protein in the diet and makes the situation worse. Protein is required for calcium to be used in the body. Getting sufficient protein will prevent osteoporosis without worrying about acid balance. This is based on recent research and common sense.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/4/609

Replace most grains with fruits and veg and keep an abundant intake of protein from animal sources (Whey and casein included). Keep your food as close to unprocessed as is practical.

I put the entire blame for calcium loss on grains. They are unnatural and the human body is not equipped to eat them in volume. They should be an occasional component of your diet, not the bulk of it as food guides recommend.

Drs Gabe Mirkin and John Bowden are both people that should be listened to. They get it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:00 pm 
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From an evolutionary perspective it is impossible to radically alter ones diet without problems. Only gradual changes work, like going from the last common ancestor we share with gorillas up to the start of the homo genus, they went from a mostly herbivorous animal to a mostly carnivorous one over 6 to 8 million years. Now we are going to a grain heavy diet, using processing to make up for the fact that we can't digest cellulose. The introduction of this food was 10,000 years ago. Nowhere near enough to to adapt to it. Granted we could tolerate slightly more grain than a human 10,000 years ago, but the difference is subtle due to the lack of time for evolution. Generally a species who is forced to radically alter diet on a permanent basis goes extinct. So biologically speaking people are trying to do the impossible.

Those nutrition people also like the calorie is a calorie crap. By that logic endocrinology shouldn't exist. They don't seem to understand that assuming there are only 2 possible places energy can go when there are many complex chemical reactions going on is downright silly.


It's not surprising how unscientific nutrition is, due to the fact that they have been chasing down an unsupported assumption for years. It's good to see that some people are continuing with the scientific method and coming up with conclusions that can actually be supported by evidence.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:33 pm 
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You won't get cancer from casein power...

Learn not to believe everything you read.


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