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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:06 am 
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pdellorto wrote:
As far as I can tell, the PN folks use "lean" to mean cuts of meat with minimal fat. Sort of like "96% lean" beef is 4% fat, so it's a lean cut. It's effectively lower fat, but it's not "low fat."


Yes, they often recommend low fat/lean meat but not a low fat diet...

An example of one of their meals which I cook quite a lot is coconut chicken... Lean, low fat meat but, you get your saturated fat obviously from the coconut...

KPj


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:05 am 
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KPj wrote:
An example of one of their meals which I cook quite a lot is coconut chicken... Lean, low fat meat but, you get your saturated fat obviously from the coconut...


Which is a vegetable source and AFAIK has somewhat different effects than animal saturated fat.

But I think the aim is, if you eat leaner cuts of meat, you've got a lot more control over your fat intake, your protein intake, and your ability to get a more even distribution of monoun-/polyun-/sat fats. If you are eating 80% lean beef and heavily marbled meat and chicken thighs and pork sausages, you're going to get a lot of saturated fat. It'll be hard to get an even (1/3 of each) intake without adding a very large amount of fat and calories to your diet.

That's all as I understand it, I could be (and probably am) oversimplifying to the point of losing some of the intent.

But if you are bulking and you're having a hard time getting in the calories, and cost is a big concern, geez, 80% lean beef is like half as much, often less, than 96% lean beef, and that saturated fat is calories, calories, calories. In an ideal world you'd be able to get a perfectly balanced diet, eat very lean grass-finished antibiotic-free beef, pesticide-free vegetables and fruits, plenty of fish oil, etc. and not have any cost issues. But if not, yeah, why not get the extra calories from fat in your beef? If there is a good reason not to, I personally don't know it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:48 am 
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I'm unaware of the difference between saturated fat in coconut vs beef.....?

I'm not against saturated fat at all, i'm all for it. That's why I recommend GOMAD....

When it comes to cost though, unless it's different on your side of the pond, then you can basically forget beef in most forms and just stick with chicken for the most part. For me beef is practically a treat - but I like it in the form of ribeye/sirloin/fillet steaks mostly. I find it much cheaper stalking up on chicken and turkey.

I can't help but think - if we want 'the fattiest cuts of meat' we can find or to get extra calories through Sat fat via beef in our diet, then why not just get grain fed beef? The antibiotics etc, maybe? Surely it's not as bad as it is with GH induced grass fed concentration-camp-cows?

It must be really difficult to get true 100% grass fed beef. I don't understand how the farms who raised cattle like that would survive financially.

As an aside, about the worst meat you get over here is 'organic' - grain and grass fed..... We're lucky in the sense that GH use in cattle is banned...

KPj


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:17 am 
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Grain fed will be higher fat but mostly in the form of Omega 6. Pastured meat will be higher in Omega 3 and CLA. That alone makes it worth the effort. I pay about $3 lb for a side of beef. That's more than factory beff but not a lot. By fattiest, I mean, don't pass up a rib eye in favour of round steak and choose 80% ground beef ove 95%.

Most farms that do grass fed beef are small producers that butcher once a year in the fall. They're not getting rich off of it. Pork farmers are really having a rough time. Factory pork is going for about $1 lb and it cost almost $2 to raise. One local producer has started an "adopt a pig" program where you pay about half up front when they start the pig and the rest when it's butchered. It cuts their risk of over producing. It works out to $1.85 lb.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:37 pm 
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Ah, ok.. Thanks.

I actually stay out in the sticks and around many farms. Lot's of friends are farmers and I haev a bit of fun with them over the whole situation. Tell them they abuse their animals and stuff - it really riles them. I've actually not spoke to anyone who feeds their animals 100% grass. Always seems to be a little grain in there.

I've also asked them why, you know, out of curiousity and they say, "because they make more milk".... A good friend of mine used to argue with me that this was a GOOD thing.... "what??? they make MORE milk... what's wrong with that?". I just said, "why don't they make that much milk in the first place??? Stop abusing your animals" etc etc

Apparently when it comes to taking the animals to the slaughter house they get paid depending on the 'grade' of meat, but I suspect how they grade the meat is all screwed up too.

Makes me wonder though, if i've ever had true 100% grassfed beef. Deffinitly something i'll need to look into more..

KPj


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:00 pm 
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KPj wrote:
I'm unaware of the difference between saturated fat in coconut vs beef.....?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_oil

Apparently, they are very different.


***

And it's not hard to find grass-fed beef now in the US. Just not cheap. But I can get it a couple times a year from a farm. Pasture-raised grass-finished beef, and it's not much more expensive than the antiobiotic and GH-filled stuff in the supermarket. As I've said before again and again, that stuff may be harmless, but it's not proven helpful, so I'd rather spend my money and avoid it. Plus the beef does taste a bit better, too. You wouldn't think it would make a big difference but it does.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Have you noticed how much better grass fed beef smells when it's cooking?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:32 am 
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I still don't get the coconut thing after reading that, to be honest... Also, coconut chicken isn't made with coconut oil, it's just real, unrefined coconut (encase you thought it was drowned in some kind of transfat...).

Anyway, I checked this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat

And it shows the difference between Lauric acid, Myristic acid, Palmitic acid and Stearic acid in all sources of Saturated Fat. The most significant thing I seen in the coconut oil was the Lauric Acid (whatever that is...). YOu can click on the link to Lauric Acid and, according to Wiki, it doesn't look like a bad thing but, this is going way deeper than my basic understanding of nutrition...

Also, I wouldn't recommend grain fed beef. It was (previously) my understanding that you got more total fat in the meat as a result of the grain based diet and therefore, if fatty cuts of meat is what you're after, why not get grain fed... Not all grain fed cattle are treated terribly. However, if it's the profile of the fat that matters more then, that makes sense...

I was actually talking to a good friend of mine last night, a life long farmer. He says they used to inject the cows with GH and feed them loads of grain until it became illegal (as it is throughout Europe). Now, the cows just kick around the fields (which they basically all do in Scotland), eating grass. Twice per day they get a trough, which is not much bigger than typical bath tub, filled with grain, between 40-50 cows. The only time they're inside is for milking and during the worse months of the winter, where they still eat grass but get a feed of grain twice per day. He also told me that when the - i've forgot the name but let's just call them - the farm inspectors, you can't even have those rubber/plastic pipes that farmers use to whip the cows that are trying to make a run for it when they're on the way to milking. Apparently they fine the hell out you if they see any of that.

Quite interesting so I thought I would share. I don't actually know where the meat from that farm ends up, though but i'm deffinitly going to seek out some true grassfed beef and see the difference. I don't imagine the beef here is all that bad, in general, though. I have a butcher near by who consistently provides amazing steaks so i'm going to quiz him on where his meat comes from.

KPj


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:31 am 
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Can people with lactose intolerance also do it? There's milk which is lactose free, but its replaced with much sugar


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:21 am 
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Jeannay wrote:
Can people with lactose intolerance also do it? There's milk which is lactose free, but its replaced with much sugar


I think that's the problem Pete was having so no, it's not a good idea. I know Paul Anderson, the famous strongman used to drink heavy cream. there are virtually no carbs in heavy cream, it's all fat.

The bottom line is increase your calories, especially protein (animal source preferred) and fat, especially saturated, Omega 3 and monounsaturated. Drinking your calories is better as your body doesn't register the calorie intake the same way and allows you to overconsume calories.

Try this for a smoothie: Heavy Cream and/or full fat unsweetened yogurt, Whey powder, light olive oil, berries and a banana.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:52 am 
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stuward wrote:
Jeannay wrote:
Can people with lactose intolerance also do it? There's milk which is lactose free, but its replaced with much sugar


I think that's the problem Pete was having so no, it's not a good idea.


If you are lactose intolerant, like me, you can still do GOMAD. But you'll need either a lot of lactose tablets, or lactose-free milk. The former isn't quite as effective as the latter for avoiding digestion problems in my experience, but the latter is more than 2x as expensive as plain whole milk.

In either case, I'm intolerant and mildly allergic, so a gallon of milk a day is a disaster for me. I know because I've tried. But if you don't have my problems, it has quite the reputation for success.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:05 am 
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Quote:
I think that's the problem Pete was having so no, it's not a good idea. I know Paul Anderson, the famous strongman used to drink heavy cream. there are virtually no carbs in heavy cream, it's all fat.
Try this for a smoothie: Heavy Cream and/or full fat unsweetened yogurt, Whey powder, light olive oil, berries and a banana.


What exactly do you mean with "heavy" cream? these creams which are usually on cakes?

Quote:
If you are lactose intolerant, like me, you can still do GOMAD. But you'll need either a lot of lactose tablets, or lactose-free milk. The former isn't quite as effective as the latter for avoiding digestion problems in my experience, but the latter is more than 2x as expensive as plain whole milk.

In either case, I'm intolerant and mildly allergic, so a gallon of milk a day is a disaster for me. I know because I've tried. But if you don't have my problems, it has quite the reputation for success.


Actually lactose-free milk is half as expensive as normal milk in my country. The problem is that the lactose is replaced with much sugar. Oh and there is only half-fat milk which is lactose free ;S


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:09 am 
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Heavy Cream is normally anything over 35% butterfat. Normal whipping cream is about 30% and that would be OK and is easier to find. There is virtually no sugar or lactose in cream this concentrated.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:05 pm 
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Nevage wrote:
pdellorto wrote:
In the UK, I have no idea what it costs...might want to do the Dozen Eggs Breakfast instead. ;)


I normally get 2 2L bottles for [1 million dollars] which would be just under a gallon. You could probably get it slightly cheaper, not much though.


I get mine from Lidl. Currently whole milk is [1 million dollars].09 for 4 pints so 50% cheaper.

St Ivel 2L Semi skimmed is [1 million dollars] for 2L in Morrisons as well. I don't mind having a bit of semi skimmed after training as the insulin spike associated with SS is less of an issue after training.


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