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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:37 pm 
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is it safe to assume coffee doesn't have a bad effect on your teeth?

I could cut the diet out if I had another caffeine heavy drink.

I drink approximately 600mg of caffeine a day, typically, sometimes more.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:46 pm 
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KPj wrote:
Ironman wrote:
You should keep in mind correlation does not prove causation. Frequently these experiments don't have proper control and variable groups too. You should also be wary of anything that is frequently found in chain e-mail.


Thanks for the info but, I don't take my info from chain mail.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... erm=Trocho[author]%20AND%20formaldehyde

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/fact ... rmaldehyde

http://coachrouse.wordpress.com/2010/01 ... ned-world/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samuel-s- ... 50249.html

Anyway, if you read what I actually said - this stuff is way beyond me. I'm sure it can be picked apart. However, and again, why risk it? Just make yourself drink water/grean tea. Drink nothing but water for 1-2 months and anything else will taste like crap.

KPj



If this stuff is beyond you, why are you talking about it? So I suppose that means explaining to you what is wrong with these studies would be a waste of time.

In that case just look at this.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/fact ... /aspartame


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:51 pm 
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pdellorto wrote:
KPj wrote:
However, and again, why risk it? Just make yourself drink water/grean tea.


It's the "this doesn't hurt me" and "this doesn't help me" divide. Ironman's said in the past that diet soda isn't harmful, so why not drink it? I'm of the opinion that it's not helpful, so why drink it? That's colored by taste, of course. I dislike the aftertaste of artificial sweeteners, and I don't generally like sweet drinks. So it's easy for me not to drink it. Others love sweet drinks and don't mind (or don't taste) the sweeteners, so it's a different decision for them.


Ironman, sorry if I've misstated your position. That's what I pulled from our earlier discussions on this stuff.


You got my position right. If you like soda, drink diet. If you were never much of a soda drinker, then there is no reason to drink diet soda. It is nothing but flavored, caffeinated water. It is no more helpful than anything else that is mostly water, and it's not harmful either.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:54 pm 
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NightFaLL wrote:
is it safe to assume coffee doesn't have a bad effect on your teeth?

I could cut the diet out if I had another caffeine heavy drink.

I drink approximately 600mg of caffeine a day, typically, sometimes more.


If there is no acidity or sugar, it's not bad for your teeth. Acidity is way overblown too. The main thing is sugar, and having the harmful variety of the two types of oral bacteria.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:00 pm 
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KPj wrote:
I'm pretty much the same. Maybe a bit stronger opinion because I used to have a very sweet tooth and now I don't.

However, I only responded with those links due to the chain mail comment. Truth is I have a large number of folders on various topics that I saved studies/articles/videos in whenever I come across them but i'm always hesitant to post things like that. You can pick apart any study, they all have limits and, I've never seen a 'study war' actually come to anything conclusive but, there's always people obsessed with them.

I've never seen a 'study' to show the benefits of foam rolling but I still do it. It's obvious to me that there's benefit but, I won't wait a decade or 2 until there's enough correlation to equal causation.

By my logic you could say why bother eating a lot of protein because there's no smoke without fire. However, limiting protein in my view defies common sense before you even dig into the 'research' to see for yourself. If it makes sense i'll go with it. For me it just makes sense to drink water/tea instead of calorie containing drinks. Sure, things like Diet Coke have hardly any calories but, it's still fizzy. What about your teeth? Another reason to dump it and by doing that you side step the debate completely.

KPj



Like many people, you would get a lot of benefits from taking a class in critical thinking. Or at least google Carl Sagan's baloney detection kit.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Ironman wrote:
If this stuff is beyond you, why are you talking about it? So I suppose that means explaining to you what is wrong with these studies would be a waste of time.

In that case just look at this.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/fact ... /aspartame


Interesting that link is from the same site as the link regarding formaldehyde. We must read the same chain mail :wink:

I'm pretty sure many here discuss topics that are beyond them. According to a recent thread, obesity is beyond everyone so, why do we discuss it at all?

Explaining what is wrong with those studies would not be a waste of time. I'm here to learn (not be patronised). You constantly go on about junk science and conspiracies so, feel free to let me have it. I was simply showing that what I said didn't come from 'chain mail' as you put it.

I like to reach Peter Rouses blog (He posted here once or twice actually). If there's anyone who thinks the food/sugar industry is corrupt, it's him. He has lots of experience plus an MS in Biochemistry. What's interesting is that he believes the 'research' showing aspartame to be safe is actually BACKED by the sugar industry where as you believe the opposite. So, what's an uninformed guy like myself supposed to believe?

http://coachrouse.wordpress.com/2010/02 ... minosweet/

Also, and yet again, my point was 'why risk it'. When I did drink soda I hated the diet stuff, it tasted like crap (in comparison). You basically have to make yourself get used to it then it starts to taste nice. Why not just do that with with water/tea then it doesn't matter whether there's dangers to aspartame or not. That was always my point, you don't need to agree with it, you know.

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Ironman wrote:
Or at least google Carl Sagan's baloney detection kit.


What's also interesting is that if anyone went on like that, the thread would get locked down.....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Acidity is definitely not "way overblown". If anything, it's not mentioned nearly enough in the usual media circles. For instance, for years I had no idea how acidic spinach was, although I always noticed my teeth felt kind of rough after eating it. I'd already cut out soda and fruit juice, and ketchup, the only other high-acid things I ate, and still had bad teeth problems. On the next dentist visits after cutting out spinach, he was baffled at how great my teeth were doing - he said something like "you're in the top 1% easily of teeth health."


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:11 pm 
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frogbyte wrote:
Acidity is definitely not "way overblown". If anything, it's not mentioned nearly enough in the usual media circles. For instance, for years I had no idea how acidic spinach was, although I always noticed my teeth felt kind of rough after eating it. I'd already cut out soda and fruit juice, and ketchup, the only other high-acid things I ate, and still had bad teeth problems. On the next dentist visits after cutting out spinach, he was baffled at how great my teeth were doing - he said something like "you're in the top 1% easily of teeth health."


actually acidity is way overblown, really it is.
The damage caused by chewing or drinking something pales in comparison to the damage caused by acidic bi-products of bacteria in your mouth consuming leftover sugars.

http://www.animated-teeth.com/tooth_dec ... caries.htm


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:49 pm 
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KPj wrote:
Ironman wrote:
If this stuff is beyond you, why are you talking about it? So I suppose that means explaining to you what is wrong with these studies would be a waste of time.

In that case just look at this.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/fact ... /aspartame


Interesting that link is from the same site as the link regarding formaldehyde. We must read the same chain mail :wink:

I'm pretty sure many here discuss topics that are beyond them. According to a recent thread, obesity is beyond everyone so, why do we discuss it at all?

Explaining what is wrong with those studies would not be a waste of time. I'm here to learn (not be patronised). You constantly go on about junk science and conspiracies so, feel free to let me have it. I was simply showing that what I said didn't come from 'chain mail' as you put it.

I like to reach Peter Rouses blog (He posted here once or twice actually). If there's anyone who thinks the food/sugar industry is corrupt, it's him. He has lots of experience plus an MS in Biochemistry. What's interesting is that he believes the 'research' showing aspartame to be safe is actually BACKED by the sugar industry where as you believe the opposite. So, what's an uninformed guy like myself supposed to believe?

http://coachrouse.wordpress.com/2010/02 ... minosweet/

Also, and yet again, my point was 'why risk it'. When I did drink soda I hated the diet stuff, it tasted like crap (in comparison). You basically have to make yourself get used to it then it starts to taste nice. Why not just do that with with water/tea then it doesn't matter whether there's dangers to aspartame or not. That was always my point, you don't need to agree with it, you know.

KPj


<facepalm>

I don't even know what to say to that..... You're missing a lot of prerequisite knowledge. I gave you suggestions about rectifying that. I can always find links to these type of things if you want to learn.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:57 pm 
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KPj wrote:
Ironman wrote:
Or at least google Carl Sagan's baloney detection kit.


What's also interesting is that if anyone went on like that, the thread would get locked down.....


Went on like what?

The only time threads get locked is when people start name calling and trading insults, or hijacking the thread. Nothing like that is going on here.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Yes, bacteria is one factor but also food acid is another: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 204535.htm


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:36 pm 
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frogbyte wrote:
Yes, bacteria is one factor but also food acid is another: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 204535.htm


Nobody is disputing it being a factor. It just isn't as big of a factor as other things.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:03 pm 
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If you're talking about the average American that consumes mass quantities of sugar, well sure. But if someone is watching sugar and drinking 6 cans of diet soda every day it -is- a big factor.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:33 pm 
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Well, the thing is, there are two different strains of oral bacteria a person can have. One type is harmless. However the other type produces very acidic waste that seems to eat through teeth very easily. The bacteria feed on sugar. But I would agree that excessive soda drinking is bad for your teeth. Especially if you don't drink some water afterwords and it stays on your teeth longer.


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