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 Post subject: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:57 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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I've decided to give this a try, I figure give it 12 weeks and see what happens. If it doesn't work or I don't like it, 12 weeks isn't long in the grand scheme of thigs. My reasons for it are this:

-I'm quite busy with Uni and working in the evenings, so training in the afternoon would suit me fine.

-Because I'm at uni all day, I have to take food with me which is a pain in the arse. Fasting would mean I can just take some BCAAs.

-I'm already lean, but I want to be "freaky ripped"

So, my day would look a bit like this (I'm using my mondays as an example)

get up at 9
first uni lecture at 11
about 12.45 drink 10g BCAAs (and a big cup of coffee)
training 1 til 2
2 o clock huge big post-workout meal (shake and some other stuff. Probably aim for about 80g of protein and 100g carbs)
back to uni til 6 (during which time I'll probably have another small meal, probably about 30g protein, some carbs)
working til 10
Home about 11, one more massive meal (with loads of protein but very few carbs, all coming from fibrous veg)
Bed

Have I understood this correctly? I mean if I finish eating about 11/12, I'm still fasting til about 2 the next day so that's a good 14 hours or so.

If anyone can tell me whether this looks right or i I've misunderstood the point then please let me know.

All help is, as always, very much appreciated.
Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 am 
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Yup, that works perfectly.

You'll find you'll want this to be your lifestyle, or you'll hate it. It's not for everyone, but there are definitely benefits to it.

I'm assuming you read leangains.com, since that's where this method of IF'ing is from..


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:01 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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wicked, I'm glad I've got the theory right anyway.

Yeah I'm expecting to either love or hate it. I think it will suit me because I'm not really one for eating in the mornings anyway, I choke down a shake but that's just because I know I need something in my system and I can't face a solid meal. I'm a little worried about training fasted, but I think between creatine, coffee and the BCAAs I should be alright.

I did get the template from leangains.com, that guy seems to be the leading authority on IF that I could find, from a bodybuilding perspective anyway...


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:13 am 
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robertscott wrote:
wicked, I'm glad I've got the theory right anyway.

Yeah I'm expecting to either love or hate it. I think it will suit me because I'm not really one for eating in the mornings anyway, I choke down a shake but that's just because I know I need something in my system and I can't face a solid meal. I'm a little worried about training fasted, but I think between creatine, coffee and the BCAAs I should be alright.

I did get the template from leangains.com, that guy seems to be the leading authority on IF that I could find, from a bodybuilding perspective anyway...


Yes, he definitely is.

Also, the fasted training was never an issue for me - I'm fairly insulin resistant, even at lower body fats, so I find myself mostly getting tired when I eat a decent meal beforehand anyways.

Plus, fasted, stimulants hit you harder (coffee).


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:30 am 
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so I take it this is the way you train?

I do have one more question: on rest days, do you still take the BCAAs in the morning and then break the fast at the same time as you would if you were training?


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:45 am 
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Just for clarification, Leangains was not the first to come up with Intermittent Fasting. I heard about it first from Art Devany and I believe the "Warior Diet" predated that. I'm pretty sure "Eat, Stop, Eat" was out before Leangains as well. I often do a 15 hour fast as in the Warrior Diet. Clarrence Bass wrote about that in 2001. I think Leangains promotes a 16 hour fast but it's essentially the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:55 am 
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stuward wrote:
Just for clarification, Leangains was not the first to come up with Intermittent Fasting. I heard about it first from Art Devany and I believe the "Warior Diet" predated that. I'm pretty sure "Eat, Stop, Eat" was out before Leangains as well. I often do a 15 hour fast as in the Warrior Diet. Clarrence Bass wrote about that in 2001. I think Leangains promotes a 16 hour fast but it's essentially the same thing.


Actually the warrior diet's a little bit different than the leangains protocol. Yes, there were quite a few IF type setups available before this one, it's just that this one has be refined in to a more bodybuilder-focused lifestyle.

While this wasn't the first, I'd say it's currently the best form of intermittent fasting right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:58 am 
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robertscott wrote:
so I take it this is the way you train?

I do have one more question: on rest days, do you still take the BCAAs in the morning and then break the fast at the same time as you would if you were training?


I don't take BCAA's at all and yes this is the way I train.

I take a scoop of whey pre-lifting, nothing pre-cardio, and I always break the fast between 2-4pm.

On rest days, BCAAs are entirely un-needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Leangains:
So glad he addressed protocol for early lifters who want to eat later in the day. So yeah, bought my first BCAA's, just today, via Amazon.

I expect big things for this fat body.

I won't be using BCAA on rest days. But I"d also like to shift the eating window if it works ok?
Training: Eat 9-5
Rest: Eat 11-7 or 12-8

good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:21 pm 
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I haven't read leangains.com or any of the other places listed as a reference for this, so can someone quickly highlight why this works. Or, what the major benefits are.

IE: It's not uncommon for me to eat at 6-7 at night and then not eat again until 11:30-12:30 the next day. I believe I should always eat Breakfast, but admit that I often don't. However, the average length of time not eating is 17-18hrs on a regular basis. I don't always eat the right foods either (ok, to be honest, I eat way to much greasy fast food and high carb foods), but I can say I don't seem to have much problem putting on weight and I'm not losing BF at any significant rate.

Cliff

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:54 pm 
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It's supposed to help with fat oxidation of stubborn body fat areas (due to low insulin during the fast) and allow for a more anabolic rebound by eating post-training (increased insulin sensitivity, etc.).

It's, in a nutshell, supposed to make energy partitioning better - so that more gets stored as glycogen/muscle and less as body fat. It's also been shown to help maintain lean body mass while dieting.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Thanks

Does the benefit come from timing the workout during a fasted state, or the nutrient breakdown around working out.

Cliff

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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:33 pm 
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wilburburns wrote:
Thanks

Does the benefit come from timing the workout during a fasted state, or the nutrient breakdown around working out.

Cliff


It comes from the increased insulin sensitivity post-workout. The idea is that eating the majority of your food (80%) in the PWO window will help it to be more muscle building and less fat promoting.

Fasting when you're not training is ideal, simply because insulin levels are low causing higher fat oxidation in that time frame.


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:52 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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NightFaLL wrote:
robertscott wrote:
so I take it this is the way you train?

I do have one more question: on rest days, do you still take the BCAAs in the morning and then break the fast at the same time as you would if you were training?


I don't take BCAA's at all and yes this is the way I train.

I take a scoop of whey pre-lifting, nothing pre-cardio, and I always break the fast between 2-4pm.

On rest days, BCAAs are entirely un-needed.


gotcha, cheers for the advice. I'm quite excited to see how my 12 week experiment works out. Maybe I'll take some before and after photos.

Have you found yourself gaining muscle at the same rate as you did before you started? Or did you switch to this just for cutting purposes and will go back to a more traditional, 6-meals-a-day type protocol when you want to bulk up again?


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 Post subject: Re: Intermittent Fasting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:10 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
NightFaLL wrote:
robertscott wrote:
so I take it this is the way you train?

I do have one more question: on rest days, do you still take the BCAAs in the morning and then break the fast at the same time as you would if you were training?


I don't take BCAA's at all and yes this is the way I train.

I take a scoop of whey pre-lifting, nothing pre-cardio, and I always break the fast between 2-4pm.

On rest days, BCAAs are entirely un-needed.


gotcha, cheers for the advice. I'm quite excited to see how my 12 week experiment works out. Maybe I'll take some before and after photos.

Have you found yourself gaining muscle at the same rate as you did before you started? Or did you switch to this just for cutting purposes and will go back to a more traditional, 6-meals-a-day type protocol when you want to bulk up again?



Cutting purposes. The chances of me gaining significant strength/muscle without also gaining significant weight/fat aren't very good (I'm pretty close to my genetic potential).

If I was trying to put on muscle and stay lean, however, this is definitely the way I'd go about it.


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