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 Post subject: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:35 am 
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I've decided to start eating BCAA-capsules, and before I order them, I want to hear some from you.
First off, I never take supplements I don't understand. It's crucial for me to understand how the supplement works and where it works before I want to use it.

Anyway, I've read lots of good things and recommendations for branched chain amino acids, and I think I understand what it is and how it works. I understand the roles of leucine, isoleucine and valine at least in some ways. I think taking excess amino acids could serve me well at this point. I don't like the words catabolic and anabolic, atleast not in this commercial sense (BCAA kicks your body from katabolic to fully anabolic, and crap like that), but I could use some more muscle. Anyone who has seen my videos and pics could agree. Also I've been resarching alot on fasting, and would like to give that a shot in near future also. The amino acids come in handy on that also.

I want to hear from you. What's your experience about BCAA's? What kind of amounts have you used? Is there something I should know, or haven't thought of at all?

Also, There are few questions about consuming. First off, the most I've read, the best time to eat BCAA would be half an hour-15 minutes before a workout. I eat a big meal after the workout, so would that be okay. Or should I take it after the workout with a big meal? How much should I take? I would like to start with a little smaller amounts. All I've read are some 200 pounds meatheads eating several grams (5-15g) of BCAA per day, when I think somewhere more around 3-4 grams a day for starters. That's something like 2g of Leucine and 1 grams of both Valine and Isoleucine. Is that enough for results? It's bloody expensive to take that many pills per day you know, and I would want to start slowly.

What about non-training days? I no longer eat breakfast (first meal 2-5h after waking), so when would be the good time taking them? Maybe somewhere in the middle of the day? After my first meal? I've read that some of the BCAA's cause the release of insuline on your body also.

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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:07 pm 
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What's the rest of your plan? Protein and creatine are more important, and more important again is the food you take in, and that's assuming you have no issues in the training and recovery aspects. I would dial those in first before I started worrying about BCAAs. Once you know that you can't improve those areas, go ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:12 pm 
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I have used BCAAs when I did intermittent fasting, using about 10g pre-training. While I did see good results from IF, it's hard to say whether the BCAAs contributed all that much.

If you're trying to add muscle, I would just spend the money on steak and potatoes. I suppose I could sort of see the point of adding them to meals to boost your leucine (which is a good thing according to supplement companies), but I doubt it'll turn a normal meal into some awesome anabolic powerhouse. If you need more protein in your meals, eat more meat, or wash it down with a glass of milk.

Also, how does it work? Does 5g of BCAAs equal 20g of protein from meat? What's the deal? I can understand using them when cutting (low calorie, no insulin spike blunting fat loss etc) but I don't see where they fit into a bulking program. That's not to say it won't work, just that I don't understand the supposed benefit.

I actually had a thread on these a while ago, and got a good response from Ironmaiden. I'll have a look and see if I can find it


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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:17 pm 
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here she is:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7897

Ironmaiden was a total beast, wish he still posted


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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Thanks for the commentary. I'll try to share my view here.

My goals lie somewhere in getting leaner, and maybe putting on a few kg's. I'm not bulking. As bulking, I mean eating just a ton of foot and gaining a mix of fat and muscle. No, if I'm to gain weight, I try to make most of it muscle mass.

About my plans. First off, I probably start a food diary, or even some sort of tracker what I consume during the day. I try to keep my non-exercise days lower on carbs than the exercise days. On exercise days I just try to eat as much as possible. I have also recently upped my vegetable/fruit intake. I take more and more protein in form of eggs, dairy, meat and protein powder. I try to eat fish once or twice a week. Sugar and alcohol are reduced to bits, sugar or candy in general twice a week max, alcohol even less and less amounts. Once a month maybe, for a few beers or drinks.
Right now I'm eating two big meals a day. Then a third maybe even a fourth smaller one. I don't eat breakfast at the moment. The first time I eat happens 2 to 5 hours after waking. Usually it is the biggest meal of the day. When possible, I workout before that. Sometimes I get to workout before the big meal, sometimes I work out few hours after that. But I always eat big after working out nontheless. I take whey protein at the moment, and will continue that also. Every day I take 70g worth of protein powder, which is 52.5g of pure protein. I also eat fish-oil with ADE-vitamins.
I doubt I need BCAA for recovery or anti-inflammation, but it wouldn't harm. I'm on a new template with lots of new exercises, so it's causing me DOMS lately. But recovery is not my consern right now.

Why this all is giving me hard time is that I'm already eating like hell. I just need to eat more. But more food means more money. I go to school and work at weekends to support me, that special someone and a dog. There's a limited amount of stuff I still can buy. Meat prices are sort of high in my opinion. 400g of minced beef costs somewhere along 2 to 3 euros at cheapest. Pork, chicken and fish is even more expensive. Some near 400 capsules of BCAA only cost me 30e or something like that. And it could give me boost for a long time, even two months or so. And let's not talk about the eating. There's a limit how much time and effort I can put to just eating and making food. Not to mention the fact that I usually exercise somewhere along 10 to 15 hours a week, all some sort of aerobic or anaerobic exercises. Mostly stuff with high interval variations on pulse (sprints on games etc.)
I know this might not be the best way to do this kind of stuff, and if it would seriously serve me better to eat more, then I will seriously reconsider it.

I was thinking on trying the Intermittent Fasting for atleast a three month period in the distant future also. I think BCAA's, or amino acids in general could help me through that, since amino acids are the thing that are working when you fast for 24 hours. I want to try to run atleast a few of the 24h fasts during the period.

Also I'm curious. I'm the kind of person who likes to run things through myself. Test ideas, see how they actually work and such. There's no knowledge like practical knowledge.

I know I have lots of nests on fire at the same time, but this is a long distance of ideas. I'm not about to run these ideas in one week. It's a slow progression, starting with the correct nutrition, then maybe inserting the fasting along. Any comment and critique is more than welcome. On the field of nutrition, I don't know enough. Not nearly enough.

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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:12 pm 
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Not really too sure what you're objective is mate, semantics of the word "bulking" aside, you say you want you want to put on a few kilos and get leaner, well you could do them both at once.

For example, say you're 200lbs and 10% bodyfat, you've got 20lbs of fat. Now, if you get 10lbs heavier without putting on any fat, you are now 210lbs and still carrying 20lbs of fat, but the fat is spread over more muscle. You do not have to get fat to build muscle (although some people struggle with their genetics).

I really don't think the BCAAs are going to do what you think they'll do. Save your money.

Also, aren't you like 8 feet tall and 100lbs? Why all the fasting? Why not take advantage of your youthful metabolism and hormones and get yourself man-size?

As for there being a limit to the amount of food you can eat and prepare, well to that sir I say "Pfft!" Want to be big and strong? Eat big (and strong). Drink milk by the gallon, snack on nuts (uber high calorie) and add a bucket load of oil/butter to whatever you cook.

Lastly, sell your dog and tell that special someone to get a job


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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:24 pm 
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robertscott wrote:
Not really too sure what you're objective is mate, semantics of the word "bulking" aside, you say you want you want to put on a few kilos and get leaner, well you could do them both at once.
Yep, that's about the goal.

Quote:
Also, aren't you like 8 feet tall and 100lbs?

Close. 180cm (5 feet 10) and 75kg (165lbs.) at the moment.

Quote:
Why all the fasting? Why not take advantage of your youthful metabolism and hormones and get yourself man-size
For what I've read, fasting is one way to get lean gains, increase mass and muscle. Hence that. Also, like I said, I like to try things out and test it. Fasting for 24 hours fascinates me alot. I will try it atleast once, even if I drop the fasting plan. Man-size is probably not yet on reach. First I focus to get somewhere around 80-85kg. Slowly and steadily.

Quote:
Lastly, sell your dog and tell that special someone to get a job

Now that would just be rude. The dog is just too adorable.

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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:33 pm 
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180cm (5 feet 10) and 75kg (165lbs.) at the moment.
[/quote]

ya, that is skinny, but you're very young. I was 5' 11" and 130lbs when I first started training.

Dub wrote:
For what I've read, fasting is one way to get lean gains, increase mass and muscle. Hence that. Also, like I said, I like to try things out and test it. Fasting for 24 hours fascinates me alot. I will try it atleast once, even if I drop the fasting plan. Man-size is probably not yet on reach. First I focus to get somewhere around 80-85kg. Slowly and steadily.


just seems unnecessary. Sure, fasting has positive effects on nutrient partitioning or whatever, but if you are looking to get heavier, I would just do it the old fashioned way that's got countless folk big and strong. It's a mixed bag though, there's reasons why you shouldn't fast too, it's not some amazing cure-all concept.

just get some meat and veg in ya boy, save the funky stuff for when you've got a decent base


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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:57 pm 
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I always sip on a BCAA mix during my training... Is there any advantage to sipping on a BCAA mix during the day while I'm at work (sedentary)? What advantages could possibly come of it, or would I just be wasting money and better off drinking water?

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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Dub, ask yourself what you would have to give up to pay for the BCAAs. For example if you could buy x lbs of ground reindeer meat for the same money as a month's supply of BCAAs, would it have more or less effect than the BCAAs?

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: BCAA
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:44 am 
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Great post I always wondered the key benefits of BCAAs


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