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 Post subject: question about routine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:09 am 
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hi everybody. i'm here once again with a question.

trying to do a circuit at the gym is nearly impossible only because it's pretty busy when i go (unfortunately going at a different time is not an option for me). not that completing a circuit itself is impossible, just moving from one exercise to another, and repeating the circuit, is not practical. if i had the gym to myself, it would be.

so i came up with a split. a three day split. and i'm doing two sets. one thing i've tried is going back and forth between the first two exercises, then between the next two exercises, and so on. this way i don't rest between sets, and kind of get a mini-circuit thing going (my apoolgies for not being familiar with the terminology as i'm sure this technique has a name). the other thing i've tried is just keeping rests between sets (and exercises) to no more than 30 seconds. more like 20 seconds. and i actually prefer this, but again, my question comes back to weight loss: is this practical.

here is a breakdown of my routine:
1.
db bench press
db fly
db shoulder press
skull crushers
one arm pushdown

2.
lat pulldown
db lateral raises
straight back seated row
db curl
bb reverse curl
db wrist curls

3.
leg press
lying leg curl
leg extension
standing calf raise

i do 2 sets of 12 for each exercise. on the leg day i do sets of 15. and everday after lifting i do my cardio. i would do 3 sets, but my body is not ready for that. i think that extra set would be to much right now.

so i'm at the gym six days a week (lifting and cardio on all six days). i don't think this is excessive. it's hard work for sure, but it's doable. it's not like i'm lifting weight that is to heavy to complete more than 5 or 6 reps. i'm not. and since i started paying attenttion to what i eat after i workout, it's been easier. i really think it makes a difference what you eat.

again, my main goal is weight loss. if i'm going about it the wrong way in regards to lifting weights, someone please set me straight. i sometimes wonder if this is to much. not becasue i'm so tired, just because i read and come across the warning of not to overtrain. i don't feel like i am.

thanks to all who respond.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:28 am 
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amisjustes wrote:
hi everybody. i'm here once again with a question.

trying to do a circuit at the gym is nearly impossible only because it's pretty busy when i go (unfortunately going at a different time is not an option for me). not that completing a circuit itself is impossible, just moving from one exercise to another, and repeating the circuit, is not practical. if i had the gym to myself, it would be.

so i came up with a split. a three day split. and i'm doing two sets. one thing i've tried is going back and forth between the first two exercises, then between the next two exercises, and so on. this way i don't rest between sets, and kind of get a mini-circuit thing going (my apoolgies for not being familiar with the terminology as i'm sure this technique has a name). the other thing i've tried is just keeping rests between sets (and exercises) to no more than 30 seconds. more like 20 seconds. and i actually prefer this, but again, my question comes back to weight loss: is this practical.

here is a breakdown of my routine:
1.
db bench press
db fly
db shoulder press
skull crushers
one arm pushdown

2.
lat pulldown
db lateral raises
straight back seated row
db curl
bb reverse curl
db wrist curls

3.
leg press
lying leg curl
leg extension
standing calf raise

i do 2 sets of 12 for each exercise. on the leg day i do sets of 15. and everday after lifting i do my cardio. i would do 3 sets, but my body is not ready for that. i think that extra set would be to much right now.

so i'm at the gym six days a week (lifting and cardio on all six days). i don't think this is excessive. it's hard work for sure, but it's doable. it's not like i'm lifting weight that is to heavy to complete more than 5 or 6 reps. i'm not. and since i started paying attenttion to what i eat after i workout, it's been easier. i really think it makes a difference what you eat.

again, my main goal is weight loss. if i'm going about it the wrong way in regards to lifting weights, someone please set me straight. i sometimes wonder if this is to much. not becasue i'm so tired, just because i read and come across the warning of not to overtrain. i don't feel like i am.

thanks to all who respond.


Congradulations on prsuing your goals. Let me state right away that I am not a fan of the kind of split that you are doing (except for advanced bodybuilders). I especially think that that type of split is a poor choice for a fat loss program. Fat loss I would go with full body workouts.

I also don't think you exercise selection is optimal. I would recommend focusing on compound lifts with freeweights. Forget isolation work for your fat loss.

Your idea of 'mini-circuits' is a form of supersetting and it's a good idea. I suggest doing full body routines and supersetting lower body movements and upper body movements. You might even try this with no rest between exercises and only resting at the end of each superset. I would keep the reps in the 8-12 range: 12 if you are a beginner, 8 if you are advanced.

Finally, 6 days a week in the gym is good, but use it wisely. Do 3 full body weight sessions and on other 3 days do some form of interval training for your cardio.

Here is an example of a weight program off the top of my head. This is just meant to give you and idea of what to do.

Day 1:
Squat/Barbell Bent-over Row superset 3-4x12
Lunge/Pull-up superset 3-4x12
Core work 3x15

Day 2:
Deadlift/Bench Press superset 3-4x12
Step-up/Shoulder Press superset 3-4x12
Core work 3x15


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:37 am 
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i forgot to mention that i stretch every morning when i wake up and do crunches three times a week. just two sets.

i'm to fat to do pull ups. and i think one can hurt their lower back very easily doing deadlifts wrong. i've tried them with just the bar and a trainer guiding me, but i always feel i'm not doing them right. i took the db approach cause i thought it would be good. thanks for the info.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:38 am 
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Location: New York
replace pull-ups with lat pulldown

and to add to the above post, you can go as high as 15 on reps


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:04 am 
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n00b
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it just doesn't seem like it's enough work. all this info is confusing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:24 am 
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It is actually more work than you are currently doing because you are using more demanding exercises.

If you need something clarified, just ask.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:47 am 
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ok, so my main goal is weight loss. i've read over and over that you should do cardio and lift weights.

i don't understand how doing these four exercises each day is more demanding.

you say replace the pull up with the pull down. got it. i'm also gonna replace the bent over rows with seated rows. is that ok? i'm concerned about my lower back.

i've read to let your muscles rest. squats, lunges, step ups all work the quads...how is that resting the muscle? how is that not working the same muscle on consecutive days?

i understand that doing bench presses also involve the triceps. therefore, is there no need to work the triceps individually? same goes for pulldowns and rows, biceps are worked a little, so is there no need to work out the biceps?

when i do rows and lat pulldowns i isolate my back muscle using my biceps minimally. should i use so much weight that i will require the help of my biceps to move the weigth?

i try to use good form so i don't get hurt, part of that requires me to use less weight, otherwise i start using other muscles to be able to complete an exercise.

am i missing something?

the tone of this email is not sarcastic, although upon rereading it, it might come off that way, but i just want to clarify that it's not. i really am confused. thanks again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:46 pm 
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Bench press will stress your triceps, for sure, but it doesn't mean that you can ignore your triceps. Chins will stress your biceps; you still have to do curls. What it all means is that you should not work out a bodypart so much, either directly or indirectly, so that it never gets time to recuperate.

I work each bodypart twice a week. Squats, twice a week. Deadlifts, twice a week. Etc. This works for me. By the end of the week I'm tired, but I rest up on the weekends and Monday morning I'm fresh as a daisy, so to speak, and ready to go. So it works out to 2 or 3 days of rest between workouts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:49 pm 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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What George gave you is a great example of how to puttogether a fat loss thing. He gave it to you in supersets, and concentrated on main compound moves. Going at a fast cli with these routines, you will be huffing and puffing. Also, they involve the whole body in both routines, just concentrating on different areas. Using the whole body in that manner sets up much greater energy demands. Now, let's look at your original plan. How much energy will you require doing isolation moves for arms and shoulders? Not very much. The idea George is trying to get through is that a quick paced workout using all the largeer muscle groups will make many more demands on your metabolism, setting up more gh output, and also creating a greater calorie input demand (i.e. you're setting up an environment for fat loss). Right at this point, as you've stated as your goal, you are NOT into bodybuilding, but trying to lose fat. Keep the goal in mind, and don't worry, he gave you more than enough work for your arms.
Tim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:54 pm 
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Deadlifts and whatnot are spine neutral exercises. "Doesn't that hurt your back?" I always hear after doing deadlifts. No, it doesn't. Sitting in a chair all day at work is far worse for my lower back.

Work the specific muscle. Don't load up the weight and start contorting yourself to "get the weight up." The idea is to stress the muscle, recuperate, stress the muscle, recuperate, and so on. Bending backward while curling will not really help your biceps; drop the weight a bit and use proper form. Always use proper form. Always use proper form. Always use...

No weight-lifting exercise is "dangerous" in and of itself. If you get hurt doing an exercise, maybe it's because you weren't properly warmed-up; maybe it's because you didn't use proper form; maybe it's because you used too much weight; maybe it's because you were doing the exercise too fast.

I laugh when people say that weight lifting is a "mindless" sport. I've learned more about the body through ... 37 already?!? ... years of weight lifting than I would have just by reading about the body in a book.

And weight lifting leads to other things, like good nutrition, a better outlook on life, stuff like that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:13 pm 
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amisjustes wrote:
ok, so my main goal is weight loss. i've read over and over that you should do cardio and lift weights.


This is exactly what you are doing.

Quote:
i don't understand how doing these four exercises each day is more demanding.


The best way to learn this is to do it. You won't argue after you try.

Quote:
you say replace the pull up with the pull down. got it. i'm also gonna replace the bent over rows with seated rows. is that ok? i'm concerned about my lower back.


Seated rows are another good choice.

Quote:
i've read to let your muscles rest. squats, lunges, step ups all work the quads...how is that resting the muscle? how is that not working the same muscle on consecutive days?


Day 1 in the above example might be Monday, then Day 2 Wednesday, and then on Friday Day 1 again. The following week do day 2/day1/day2.
There is a lot of overlap in muscles worked in a lot of the lower body movements. This is OK. Just start out with weight you can handle comfortably and build up your work capacity over the next 6 weeks.

Quote:
i understand that doing bench presses also involve the triceps. therefore, is there no need to work the triceps individually? same goes for pulldowns and rows, biceps are worked a little, so is there no need to work out the biceps?


Your goal is fat loss. For fat loss you don't need to isolate biceps or triceps. If you really want to you can add a couple of sets for biceps and triceps at the end of the workout, but do the main exercies first.

Quote:
when i do rows and lat pulldowns i isolate my back muscle using my biceps minimally. should i use so much weight that i will require the help of my biceps to move the weigth?


How can you isolate your back. It's not really possible regardless of the weight you lift. And whether you 'feel it' in the biceps or not is irrelevant. It is not really indicative of anything.

Quote:
i try to use good form so i don't get hurt, part of that requires me to use less weight, otherwise i start using other muscles to be able to complete an exercise.


This is a good idea. Always choose good form over more weight. But do try increase the weight from workout to workout.

Quote:
am i missing something?


You are just learning.

Quote:
the tone of this email is not sarcastic, although upon rereading it, it might come off that way, but i just want to clarify that it's not. i really am confused. thanks again.


You are not allowed anymore questions until you report back on your exepriences in the gym with the above workout (or whatever you choose to do) :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:25 pm 
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n00b
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thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. i will give it a go and make it a point not to do it half-heartedly. because that's how i feel when i read it. i can't believe that's the way to go for fat loss.

but you are quite right when you say i'm just learning. i just want to make the most of my time at the gym and if you guys suggest to go about it this way, i will. i might even take a pic tonight, and do a before and after every six weeks? that would take guts. thanks again.

and in regards to:
Quote:
You are not allowed anymore questions until you report back on your exepriences in the gym with the above workout (or whatever you choose to do) :)

i think that's fair.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:59 pm 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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Location: Va Beach, Va
Aisjustes, you have mail.
Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:33 am 
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Location: Midwest USA
This is an interesting thread. I could imagine myself saying the same things before actually trying squats and deadlifts.

After doing them now for just a couple months I know that they are some of the most difficult exercises because they involve the most muscle. No weightlifting exercise gets my heart and lungs going more than squats and deadlifts.

Also, if you look at the exercises suggested to you, they will work all the largest muscles in the body (quads, hamstrings, glute, pecs, lats, general back, etc). Involving as much muscle as possible is really the best thing for fat loss. In my opinion, doing curls is just a waste of time if your goal is fat loss.

So I'd agree with others and say "just try it".

I've recently gotten into the crossfitworkouts which I have found are unparalelled for working the muscles as well as the heart to achieve a broad level of fitness. They also keep things interesting because of the variety.

Take a look at my journal if you want to see the workout changes I've gone through in the last couple months since I started. The only constant is change.

_________________
Peter Parker
Health Journal (see Crossfit, Scaled WODs)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:10 pm 
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George G wrote:
It is actually more work than you are currently doing because you are using more demanding exercises.

If you need something clarified, just ask.


I'm so confused about the best lifting schedule and cardio:

Currently:
Day 1 Chest/Triceps (3 exercises each/3 sets x 10 reps) then,
30 min bicycle ride 85% max heart rate
Day 2 60 min bicycle ride 75% max heart rate
Day 3 Back/Biceps (3 exercises each/3 sets x 10 reps) then,
30 min bicycle ride 85% max heart rate
Day 4 60 min bicycle ride 75% max heart rate
Day 5 Legs/Shoulders/Abs (3 exercises each/3 sets x 10 reps) then,
30 min bicycle ride 85% max heart rate
Day 6 60 min bicycle ride 75% max heart rate
Day 7 OFF

I have read that it is better to do a full body workout 3x week. I have read that too much cardio stunts muscle growth. I haven't lost any body fat and I have been working serious for about 45 days. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sid


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