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 Post subject: Weight Ratios
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:44 am 
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Hi, I'm new to the forum here, though I've been visiting the exrx website for some time now for exercise information - best I've found, for sure!

I checked the rest of the forum and the site to see if there was any information on this already, but I didn't find any:

I've been weight training for about a year now, and recently I've been thinking about trying to find my weaknesses/areas for improvement. I was wondering if there were basic guidelines for the weight ratios for each exercise (just for an example, if you should be able to military press a certain percentage of your bodyweight, or a certain percentage of your bench press.)

I know that shoulders are my biggest area for improvement, but hopefully if there is such an outline, it'll give me some more guidance as to how/where I should be focusing my training.

Thanks very much.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:07 am 
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Hi. I know of no real set in stone ratios. The big thing though, is to keep things in balance. If you bench press a lot (horizontal push), it would be a good idea to do equal amounts of row (horizontal pull), and the same with press and chins/lat pulls, etc (vertical push and pull). Another example is legs quad dominant balanced out with legs glute/ham dominant. I'd like to give you ratios, but I think it is an individual thing, based on your own physical characteristics.
A long time ago, there was a goal put forth which while not totally accurate, seems to be somewhat reliable. Stuart McRobert said that a good goal to become much stronger than average for a 5-10 to 6 ft male weighing around 190 lbs would be a 300-400-500 lifts in the BP, SQ, DL respecively. Again, not totally accurate, but a good goal to shoot for.
Tim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:48 am 
While I have never heard of a certain weight ratio regarding military press I have heard them for the bench press & squat. The bench press ratio was equal to bodyweight, the squat ratio was 1.5x your bodyweight. At those ratios you would be considered to have a good base of strength.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:14 pm 
Jhawk,

Are those for reps are for 1RM?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:26 am 
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Thanks, all, for the replys... that's likely why I had a hard time finding it on my own. I know I've read a discussion regarding typical incline press-to-bench press ratios, so I was hoping that could extend to all exercises.

How does one determine their areas for improvement? Is it just personal preference? The only standard I've been using is making note of the exercises I dislike the most vs. the ones I enjoy - the less I like it, the more attention it could probably use.

I've never reviewed my workout with a pro trainer (it's just a 4 day split - chest/biceps, back/triceps, shoulders, legs), so maybe that's something I should consider, too.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:18 am 
Anonymous wrote:
Jhawk,

Are those for reps are for 1RM?


1RM's, but again, that's for your average joe. a trained athlete would be expected to be well above that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:31 am 
I can't even bench HALF my bodyweight. And I'm 35 years old. I feel like a pu**y. You know it's bad when a 20 year old chick challenges you to an arm wrestling match. I told her I was up for oil wrestling but that's another subject altogether.

I just started seriously training last week, full body every third day. I'm 5'9 and weigh 150. You think since I'm such a puny little bastard I could get to that base strength level pretty quickly? I've heard that newbies make gains very quickly. My one rep max for bench press is probably around 60 pounds. No, really, I'm not kidding. As soon as you're finished laughing I would like to know what you think is a reasonable amount of time to expect to reach 150 pounds on bench press? Any answers, or suggestions on expediting the muscle gain, would be greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:21 am 
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Wll, I would hesitate to give a time frame, as individuals vary. However, the good things going for you are that you are a beginner, and you seem to have a great mindset. Thats well over half the battle. As a beginner, your familiarity with the exercises themselves, along with adapting proper form will account for a lot of gains, and add to that that since it's new, the body is oing to be going all out to adapt in the form of added strength. You should see major strength gains (in terms of poundages ) in as little as 5-6 weeks, but I can't promise exact numbers. Just keep the good attitude and remember, consistency is the key.
Good training.
Tim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:48 am 
Skinny Dude wrote:
I can't even bench HALF my bodyweight. And I'm 35 years old. I feel like a pu**y. You know it's bad when a 20 year old chick challenges you to an arm wrestling match. I told her I was up for oil wrestling but that's another subject altogether.

I just started seriously training last week, full body every third day. I'm 5'9 and weigh 150. You think since I'm such a puny little bastard I could get to that base strength level pretty quickly? I've heard that newbies make gains very quickly. My one rep max for bench press is probably around 60 pounds. No, really, I'm not kidding. As soon as you're finished laughing I would like to know what you think is a reasonable amount of time to expect to reach 150 pounds on bench press? Any answers, or suggestions on expediting the muscle gain, would be greatly appreciated.


Dont fret man, it wont take long. I remember when i first started lifting when i was 18 i could barely do 90...which was half my bodyweight! And i had a natural stocky build which made it even more pathetic, cause everyone figured i had some power! I cant give an exact time frame either (was too long ago!)but i remember making it to 130 in a very short period of time. Gains were just coming every workout. Make sure you eat alot too, if you're working out alot you'll need to eat more to gain that muscle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:09 pm 
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I don't remember where I heard this, but I think quad : ham ratio should be 3 : 2. Also, a way to focus on one more than the other is not just target one (just extra lying leg curls) but target one and then do your squat routine.

[quote="Skinny Dude"]I can't even bench HALF my bodyweight. And I'm 35 years old. I feel like a pu**y. You know it's bad when a 20 year old chick challenges you to an arm wrestling match. I told her I was up for oil wrestling but that's another subject altogether.

I just started seriously training last week, full body every third day. I'm 5'9 and weigh 150. You think since I'm such a puny little bastard I could get to that base strength level pretty quickly? I've heard that newbies make gains very quickly. My one rep max for bench press is probably around 60 pounds. No, really, I'm not kidding. As soon as you're finished laughing I would like to know what you think is a reasonable amount of time to expect to reach 150 pounds on bench press? Any answers, or suggestions on expediting the muscle gain, would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

I want to assure you that you will make gains so long as you continue to work. Don't be embarassed, remember that soon enough you'll be in good shape. You might want to split up your workouts into upper/lower body, full body days always seem to lead to overtraining (my opinion).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:54 pm 
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DubDub wrote:
I don't remember where I heard this, but I think quad : ham ratio should be 3 : 2. Also, a way to focus on one more than the other is not just target one (just extra lying leg curls) but target one and then do your squat routine.


I'm not sure you should do a targe exercise before a compound exercise. I think you should do squats and then the target.

Skinny Dude wrote:
My one rep max for bench press is probably around 60 pounds. No, really, I'm not kidding. As soon as you're finished laughing I would like to know what you think is a reasonable amount of time to expect to reach 150 pounds on bench press? Any answers, or suggestions on expediting the muscle gain, would be greatly appreciated.


If your bench is really this weak (60 pounds = bar + <10 pounds on each side) the what would probably benfit you the most is just constantly doing push ups. Don't forget to do rows, too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:08 pm 
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strathmeyer wrote:
DubDub wrote:
I don't remember where I heard this, but I think quad : ham ratio should be 3 : 2. Also, a way to focus on one more than the other is not just target one (just extra lying leg curls) but target one and then do your squat routine.


I'm not sure you should do a targe exercise before a compound exercise. I think you should do squats and then the target.


>> Pre-Exhaustion Do an isolation exercise, such as the leg extension, before a more demanding one such as a squat. This pre-exhausts the quadriceps, making them the weak link in a squat. “I hit the leg extension hard, so I was very tired when I got to squats,” Arnold wrote. “But I kept trying and soon was able to do heavy squats immediately after leg extensions, and my thighs responded tremendously.”

from: http://www.muscleandfitness.com/training/43

Obviously, this is from an article for pretty advanced lifters, so you may be right that it doesn't apply. Also I haven't proven that the same principle applies to other muscles.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:16 pm 
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This can be a legit method.

It can also work with upper back or chest.

You do biceps or triceps before hand to preexhaust this link in the compound movement above. This forces you to use other muscles more or develop stronger biceps and triceps. either way, this can be beneficial and it is a good way to modify the routine to avoid stagnation. I recommend doing something like this atleast once per year.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:22 am 
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Ryan A wrote:
This can be a legit method.


Very interesting! I was hesitant when I read it because I've only every workout at at gyms where you don't have to be a member (school, work) so 90% of the people I see work out have no clue what they're doing and I'd hate for them to read something like this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 am 
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I'll expand a little bit on this. I've seen it used in several different instances. One instance would be, obviously, a very advanced trainee working specifically for hypertrophy (bodybuilding). The other times I've seen it used are in prep/adaptation/accumulation phases in a periodized program. The idea being pre-exhaustion, get the weakest links up front, save the big compounds for last in the lineup. It's typically used for this purpose for about 3 weeks or so for building work capacity, etc. Then, after 3 weeks or so, it's on to a more intense block with exercises being more what you would expect, e.g. working the biggest, compds, first, getting towards more isolation later.
Tim


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