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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:13 pm 
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I think the next time you train chest you should try 115lbs, get a spotter or do it in a power rack, and then come back and tell us:

1) How many reps you did at that weight, and
2) Where you most felt the strain/fatigue: (a) chest, (b) shoulders, or (c) arms.

John


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:55 pm 
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thanks for the advice again guys.

jwcalla ill try that out and post it. next chest day is friday.


also, when i said ABC off i meant, A - mon B - tue C- wed off - thur A- fri etc.

A - push
B - pull
c - legs

and abs and anythign that doesnt get worked by those mixed in there.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:09 pm 
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You would be better off with upper/lower twice, or do a 3 or 4 day once a week. Like the way you have it (push/pull/legs but only once) or push/pull/quad oriented and calves/ham oriented and abs. Alternately upper body can be split between primary and secondary, as in compound chest and back work one day and direct shoulder and arm stuff the other day, which is the one Poloquin always pushes. It's nice if you like antagonistic supersets.

Just keep in mind, twice a week you just work everything a bit. Totally hammering a muscle is only if it gets worked just once a week.

Since you are a beginner the best option is really going to be the twice a week. Long rest and and giving your muscle a major pounding isn't as effective for beginners.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:42 pm 
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ok, so when do upper and lower twice a week, what exactly does that mean? do half of my upper and lower body exercises monday, and do the other half thursday? or do you mean do upper body monday, and my lower body thursday? or if im completely wrong, could you clue me in.


i just got home from the gym. i did chest today instead of legs. i did dumbell flat, decline and incline, all 3x8's and 2 tricep dumbell exercises 2x8. one tricep exercise was arm behind the head while sitting up, and the other was laying down and extending the arms from behind your head to above your body with palms facing up. the palms actually made a difference in where i felt it. if i switched my palms to look like hammer curls, i couldnt lift it because i had done the other tricep exercise right before.

as of now, i can feel that my triceps are pumped. i havent felt my chest feeling pumped since my first dumbell bench exercise though. i dont even think i felt my chest pumped doing declines, but i know i felt my triceps then. also my arms shook a lot on incline bench with 25 lbs'ers. if anything stops my bench i believe its my triceps. i could be doing the exercises wrong and focusing the weight too much on my triceps though. then again, ive stopped gaining on everything except leg stuff so i dont know.

and i stopped before i felt dizzy or really fatigued, even though my friends kept going just because there were more bars and machines they had not touched yet.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:30 pm 
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He means do upper body on say Monday, lower on Tuesday, take Wednesday off, then repeat Upper on Thurs, and Lower on Friday.

That is an Upper Lower split.

Now as to the 3 day split I think he means something like what you are doing but just doing it Monday, Wed , Friday and take Tues and Thurs off to do cardio or something.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:16 am 
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Ryan's first line is the upper/lower, that would be the best. Don't do flat and decline. Do one or the other. How about 2 flat and 1 incline on Monday and 1 decline and 2 incline on Thursday.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:50 am 
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Another option with an upper/lower split would be to simply do a flat or decline press on Monday and an Incline Press on Thursday. For example, on Monday you could do Barbell or Dumbbell Bench Presses, Military Presses, Barbell Rows and Wide-grip Chins, plus two or three auxiliary exercises if you have time/energy. Then on Thursday you can do Inclines, Dumbbell Shoulder Presses, Dumbbell Rows and Curl-grip Chins.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:04 pm 
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I fear that we might be overwhelming this poor guy with training advice, which I think can be highly particular to the individual. There are universal basics of course, but much of what is most effective for a particular person could be ineffective for another. It took me about five years off-and-on to find a training program that really works well for me.

Barbell bench press, in my experience, is a very difficult movement to master. It's not like shoulder press or the curl which are rather obvious movements. I think it's especially difficult to learn if somebody doesn't have prior athletic experience, or has undeveloped motor skills. Poor form or technique can limit the amount of weight moved.

The other thing about barbell bench press is that the total weight can be hampered by weaknesses in other muscle groups like the shoulders and triceps. It took me awhile to recognize that my arms were the primary inhibiting factor of my bench progress. I began to train my triceps hard (on a separate day) and my bench responded. To some people who have never had triceps weakness and thus never experienced these problems, the idea of dedicated triceps training is probably preposterous.

Now I'm not saying that Bananas should start training triceps. But eventually he is going to have to find the kind of workout his body best responds to. At this beginner stage, I think just about any training program that respects the basics and doesn't kill him should work well. I think the primary emphasis at this time should be on (1) diet/nutrition, (2) sleep, (3) consistently adding weight to the bar, and (4) patience.

All JMO,
John


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:17 pm 
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ok guys thanks for the advice, im trying to take it all in. i appreciate you guys saving me sometime by giving me good advice instead of me having to figure them out over time, yet i am aware that my body is unique and i will have to figure a few things out on my own.

so now its time to figure out a good upper/lower split.

here are all the exercises i can think of that i need for a well rounded body:

for upper body:


bench presses
dips
row
pull up/cable pulldown
shrug
military press
upright row
rear delt row
bicep curls
tricep exercise
back extensions
crunches/ twisting sit up

lower body:
squats
sitting quad extension machine thing
leg press machine
lunges
deadlift
ham curl
calves
hip abductor and flexor machine
anything else for lower body?

ok so if i have these to choose from im going to try and make a nice schedule.


Monday. Upper body A

Flat bench press
Decline bench press
Dips

row
Cable pull downs


Tuesday. Lower Body A
Squat
Ham curl
Calve push
hip abductor/flexor machine
ab crunch machine


Wed off



Thursday. Upper body B
Incline bench press

Military press
Upright row

Rear Delt Row
Shrugs


Friday. Lower body B

Deadlift
Lunges
hmm anything else?
twisting sit ups



so how does this look guys? am i missing anything? does it look like i may have too much? i guess i should try it otu before deciding if its too much though.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:34 pm 
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Banans. This site is an encyclopedia. Yor split doesn't look all that bad, but use this, it will step you right through it. The templates give you choice, and the exercises in bold are the compound moves, and fshould be right up there in the first choices. Note that the exercises are linked to the Exercise and muxle directory, which have video clips. Scroll down to the 2 day splits, then scroll down and take the link to upper/lower, and click on it. It will bring up your choices.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WorkoutMenu.html
Tim


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:39 pm 
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thanks for pointing me to that page tim, and yes i love this site for its information, its how i learned about all the exercises and how to do them. the little clips are great.

looking at the upper/lower split, i dont think i can do all of those exercises in one day without getting dizzy, but ill give it a shot first and then reorganize them as my body sees fit.


thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:53 pm 
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In Memoriam: TimD
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Bananas, I don't think it was meant to do them all. In the write up below it directs you how to arrange it. Notice in the write up on "the auxilliaries". It says pick one if you think you must do a second exercise for that part. So I'd leave a few of the auxilliaries out for starters. As you get more conditioned, then you might try to add some in.
Tim


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:45 pm 
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gotcha


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:35 pm 
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just weighed myself and i went down to 166 lbs from 175 lbs when i started. i think i need to start eating more, and i think a mass gainer is in line if i cant get all the food i need.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:40 am 
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More food, less volume. Your muscles are getting a major smackdown and no time to recover and grow. You grow while you're resting and sleeping. The gym is when you tear them down.


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