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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:47 pm 
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I would like to do the whole "maintain mass and lose fat" however i know its harder to do than say it. I would like to concentrate on burning fat so I'm doing cardio 5-6 times a week, and also doing a workout routine 3 times a week. The cardio is spinning 20-30mins. Am I better off doing this early in the morning, or after my weights? I want to accomplish burning fat first, and just working out/eating to try and keep my muscle but preferably not my fat! I've tried morning and evening and both seem like I can stick to it, however I seem to be able to spin harder in the evenings after working out, though in the morning I supposebly burn a lot more fat through the day. Suggestions for my case?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:33 pm 
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The best time to exercise is when you can do it!

There is a debate whether cardio is best in the morning or the evening. Personally, I can't do cardio first thing in the morning, so it gets done about mid-morning. As long as it is done, and the calories are burnt, I don't think it matters much in the long run.

Since your cardio is spinning, I would suggest that you do the cardio after the lifting. If you get tired doing cardio, then you won't concentrate fully on the lifting. I have read that you should only do moderate cardio after lifting, but some people do intense cardio with no problem.

In other words, do whatever works for you.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:40 pm 
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From what you are saying it sounds like after weights would be better for you. Work on your diet too. You want to get your diet tweaked out good, then maybe add just a little cardio, then drop calories a little if the fat loss stalls out, then a little more cardio. Cardio is the icing on the cake, it is not the main course thing for fat loss. It sounds like you've just about maxed out your cardio already, so you can't really increase it much more without slowing your metabolism and making things worse. Frequently when someone is overweight and new to lifting heavy, going heavy like you are trying to bulk and keeping protein up will allow you to gain muscle while loosing fat for a while. You might as well take advantage of that to boast your metabolism. Once you are in better shape, such miraculous things will no longer be possible.

By the way, if you post in the wrong place by mistake you can just leave it. I'll move it for you so you don't have to repost.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:19 pm 
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[quote="Ironman"]
By the way, if you post in the wrong place by mistake you can just leave it. I'll move it for you so you don't have to repost.[/quote]

Thanks!

As for the diet, I think thats what's holding me back. I've been doing much better these last 2 weeks, but I would eat milk & cereal in the morning, a sandwich for lunch, nutrigrain bar for snack, and then milk & cereal for dinner...BUT come Saturday/Sunday I would eat fast food almost every meal! I've eliminated sodas and desserts completely and now I only allow myself 1 fast food a week. It's rough since I have a kid and he wants "chicken and french fries" every day of the week and he is thin as a pencil! Thanks for the advice, I think my workout is fine, 1 exercise per muscle group, 3 sets, twice a week. I go as heavy as I can for 3 sets of 10 and it leaves me sore for days. I will stick to my evening cardio and hopefully it does me some good! Evening cardio done will be much more effective than my skipped morning cardio sessions!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:41 pm 
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Rod007,

You may want to consider interval training for your purpose. Studies are beginning to show that interval training is better at burning fat than long slow distance (LSD) training, and more importantly, interval training is less catabolic to existing muscle mass than LSD training is. To top it off, interval training protocols such as the “Tabata Protocol” take less than 10 minutes to complete compared to the traditional 30-60 minutes of LSD recommended for fat loss. There is only one potential downside to interval training – it’s HARD compared to slower and longer bouts of cardio.

I personally still like going out for a longer run or putting some mileage on my C2 rower, but I do it for fun, not necessarily for function.


Look at the “Fat Loss” section of this article for more detail:
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/392/

Don’t just rely on my word or this one article – there is a great deal of research on the internet regarding interval training. A quick Google search of “interval training” or “tabata protocol” will return a ton of good information.

Good luck

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:09 pm 
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Rod007, I happen to agree 100% with crookfit with respect to intervals. Could be with normal "aerobic" type of activities or interals with weights. See crossfit or Dragon door for those methods. Cossfit calls them "metcon" or metabolic conditioning.I'm just chiming in for the diet part.
I don't consider milk and cereal for breakfast and dinner and sandwhiches for lunch much of a diet for fat loss, or maintaining muscle. Wa too heavy on starch (bread and cereal) and too light on vegetable, fruit and lean protein. See the following two articles as well as the nutrition and weight management sections on this site.
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... habits.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nut ... ting_2.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:29 am 
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In addition, nutrigrain bars are about as healthy as candy bars.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:51 pm 
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our bodies do NOT utilize fat at an efficient level during High intensity Carido. If you want to burn fat you need to work at 55%-70% of your maximum heart rate. Train in that targeted zone for minimum 30 minutes. There you will burn primarily fat calories. Spinning will wear you down as well as burn muscle if you arent careful with your glycogen recovery.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:01 pm 
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Thanks for the advice all, I will setup a new nutritional plan involving healthier choices. I think my nutrition is what is holding me back!

As for spinning, I don't spin too hard, usually watching tv at a good pace to burn calories but I don't get crazy.

Also, should I try some of these fat burning pills that boost my metabolism to take in the morning since I will not be exercising until night time? Will this help me with fat loss or just be a waste of my money? I've tried things such as Creatine before and it was the most expensive juice ever since it did nothing for me. Since then, I have been very careful of purchasing these 'helpful' supplements.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:17 am 
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I have to disagree with Phil. That fat burning zone is bogus. Look at all the fatties up there doing the hamster dance. They're not going anywhere in more ways then 1. Compare distance runners to sprinters. The sprinters are the lean guys. There is no sense in doing all that cardio. If you jump right in with all that cardio right off the bat, you have nothing to add when your body very quickly adapts to it. And your body WILL adapt, it is part of the law of conservation. You do only enough to stimulate fat loss. If you go crazy with it, you're just going to kill your metabolism. Also high intensity cardio spares muscle a lot better then long and slow. Doing the hamster dance burns more muscle then anything else you can do. What else helps burn muscle? Low protein intake, kind of like in the low fat diets. So you have lots of cardio and a diet that is low in protein, muscle is lost, metabolism drops like a rock, and there is your explanation for hamster dancin' fatties.

Those fat burner supplements don't work. If you just get your diet squared away you'll be in good shape.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am 
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IM, got to give it to you. You do have a way with words, i.e. the hamster dance. I agree. I think it's been pretty wellproven that high intensity work, done with short to minimal rest breaks has a MUCH greater effect on fat loss than the longer, slower "target zone" type of thing. Clarence Bass has numerous lists of studies to this effect over at his site. Also, look at all those people over at Dragondoor and crossfit that live on this stuff. It's all about srint intervals, and getting complexes done for time, and the Tabata protocol. The advocates of the target zone types will say that it burns more calories. Well, during exercise, yes, it does. HOWEVER,it is the time AFTER exercise that counts as well, and it doesn't do much for that, whereas the HIIT type keeps the metabolism reved for long after. I would suggest doing some research on the subject of HIIT vs the longer slower type. Good stuff on that right here on this site, then try a search.
All that aside, if you like the longer slower stuff, hey, go for it. Might do the heart some good, and might be a good change up, I just can't see from the evidence that it is the optimal way to go for fat loss with minimal effects on losing lean mass.
One last point. Spinning, as I know it, IS intervals. It was designed to emulate mountain biking.I know a few instructors, and the way they do their classes, it is definately NOT a long slow type, so with that in mind, i'd say that if you like it, good choice.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:40 pm 
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The beginning spin classes are easy. After that those people get hardcore in there. It is a mix of anaerobic and aerobic intervals.

I do like to add a little colorful language and humor. It's amusing. And spoonful of laughs helps the knowledge go in, to paraphrase Mary Poppins.

I just think of hamsters on their little wheels when I see that. So I had to try and share my little visual.


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