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 Post subject: Lagging Bodypart
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:44 pm 
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n00b
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Location: Mn, USA
Hey guys,

I wanna say thanks again for the awesome site and forums. I hardly ever post but I read a lot and find the info really helpful.

The last couple of months I've made a lot of progress. I've seen muscle mass increase all over my body. What's most exciting is to see muscles develop that I never really had before. I have lats now! I can't tell you how exciting it was to look in the mirror and see that V-shape starting.

I've also trimmed off some of my beer belly. I'm down from 204 to 191. At 6 ft. even, I think I'm getting closer to an ideal weight.

The only thing thats a little disappointing is my chest seems underdeveloped. Lagging might not be the best word, cause I've definitely seen some progress. I think it was just smaller to begin with, compared to my arms. How can I get my chest to catch up?

I was thinking of trying a superset of decline press, fly's and then a crossover. Would that be too much? I don't want to do anything counterproductive.

I also thought of giving my chest an extra workout in the week. I do my push workouts on Monday, and by Friday my tri's still seem nice and pumped but my chest "shrinks" back down by then. Is it possible that my chest is underdeveloped enough that an extra workout a week is ok? Again, I don't want to overtrain.

Any help is appreciated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:30 pm 
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What else are you doing with your chest?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:46 pm 
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What else? Not sure what you mean.

I'm just doing a decline press and fly's right now. Not much else should be hitting my chest. I run for my cardio workouts. I Box occasionally, but that mostly hits my delt's, and tri's, bit of soreness in the lat's too.

Should I be doing something else?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:11 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Add some type of incline press for your upper chest. Also, some guys find that barbell bench presses (decline, incline or flat) develop their front delts more than their pectorals. If this is the case with you, try benching with dumbbells.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:19 pm 
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So basically a superset of Decline press, fly's, and incline press?

And I should stay away from an extra workout then?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Why are you stuck on the superset idea?

You could try resting between sets and using more weight on each lift. You can still do them in the same workout and even rotate between them but rest between exercises for a little time (60-90 seconds).

I do think the incline recommendation is a good one so add that, but if you have been doing these supersets for more than a month, I suggest changing to something with more rest.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:59 am 
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There should be no problem working Chest twice a week. Perhaps doing horizontal on Monday with Decline/Incline on Friday. Make Monday heavier than Friday since you have 4 days to recover vice 3 for the Friday workout. It sounds to me like you're waiting too long between workouts. I wouldn't worry about overtraining since the chest muscles are relatively small compared to legs. It's the leg workouts that you need to be most concerned about overtraining. If you like the superset idea, try supersetting your back exercises in with your chest exercises.

Check out Dr. Squat's ABC articles. It has guidelines for how long diferent body parts need for recovery.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:27 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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In general, I don't think flyes and crossovers are of much value. I'd recomend you just do barbell or dumbbell presses for chest. One incline press, and one flat or decline press should cover it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:13 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
In general, I don't think flyes and crossovers are of much value.


I can think of two bodybuilders - one old school (Bill Pearl) - and the other fairly modern - (Eddie Robinson ) - who would disagree with the statement that flies aren't of much value. Bill Pearl, while acknowledging the ability of the bench press to build upper body power, thinks that it is overrated as a chest developer. He is a big supporter of dumbbell flies for chest development.

So is Eddie Robinson. Robinson is a bodybuilder and powerlifter of some note. He has benched over 600 pounds in powerlifting meets, yet he doesn't think that the bench, in his case, is a good chest developer. His bodybuilding routines, like Pearl's, are heavy with dumbbell flies (incline,flat and decline).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:09 am 
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I'd do incline and flat before I do decline. Decline will develop the lower part of the chest and give you a tit look. I do all three with variations at least once a week.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:40 am 
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Fly's (if your talking about a machine or cable use) and cables are excellent exercises to add to your chest workout, but for sheer size you need to go heavy with flat bench, incline and decline. You also need to make sure you're hitting all areas of the chest. This will enlarge your entire chest area. I've done a workout 5 sets of 5 reps with heavy weight and then one max set. That worked really well for size. Pyramid training is good, however if you go 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 , maybe skip going back up in reps (and down in weight). Perhaps your overdooing the amount of reps and that is actually taking away from your size. The advice that these guys are giving you all seems good though, so it sounds like the most important thing is that you switch it up and stimulate the change in your chest muscles.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:27 pm 
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I agree that flyes shold be incorperated in the workout. I usually do a set of flat bench flyes, incline flyes and then decline flyes, and then move into crossovers in the same order. Switch the order or move to standing cable exercises that hit the same parts of your chest for variation.

Among the big-name bodybuilders that believed greatly in flyes was Arnold. I've read in a couple of different pieces of literature that flyes will help to develop the chest, and to make it wider by stretching it further through the full range of motion, while crossovers will do more for muscle detail, giving striations in the chest. (those sinewy lines in the chest.)

Also, I've noticed a lot that people tend to take their chest out of exercises a lot through form that pulls the back, delts, and triceps into it a lot. Really focus on your target muscle, and play with your form to see how you feel it best in your chest. You may have to drop weight a little, but it will give you better results for the target muscle group.

For example, when I hit the bench press, instead of trying to "push" the bar, I try to squeeze my upper arms in from my chest while extending my arms and making sure that my shoulders stay back. Keeping the focus there helps me to isolate my chest, even with wide-grip presses.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:50 am 
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How is it that flys do anything different then bench press? Look at what your upper arm does in both exercises. It is the same. It's just bench press without the elbow extension and with a much lighter load. Crossovers have a greater range of motion, but I don't see how that changes anything. Your chest pulls your arms in, that's it. It's not like the hamstring for example that can be worked from the hip or the knee.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:57 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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The way I see it Dumbbell Bench Presses combine the flying motion of a Dumbbell Flye with the Pressing motion of a Barbell Bench Press, so in a sense they give you the best of both worlds. Also, they're a lot safer than heavy dumbbell flyes, since they give you more control over the weights.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:34 pm 
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I think the point Ironman is making is that a muscle can only contract in one way so "hitting it from a different angle" is complete BS.

You are mostly seeing a difference in the weight due to the fact that in flys you hold the weight a lot farther from straight overhead, making the weight a lot heavier due to the longer level arm. The other difficulty lies in what the stabilizers have to do and how strong those are.

If you want to get a strong chest then you should try to use your chest as much as possible, and try to use every other muscle you can to get the most weight up so that your chest gets the most weight on it.

If you only used your chest to bench press, you would never do one rep since the triceps alone finish the lift, ie, the chest cant extend the arm at the elbow.


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