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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:31 am 
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I am Eric and my weight is 235lbs and want to lose my extra weight, anybody can tell me how it can be done effectively without any surgery.
I am aiming to lose about 20 lbs a month, is this task achivable. please reply.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:51 am 
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It's possible but that rate is not healthy. Just stop eating and you could do it. Of course your muscle loss would be significant. Better, is learn to eat right, exercise to build/retain muscle and take a longer term approach. 2 lbs a week is a good rate for someone your size.

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Stu Ward
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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:27 am 
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stuward wrote:
It's possible but that rate is not healthy. Just stop eating and you could do it. Of course your muscle loss would be significant. Better, is learn to eat right, exercise to build/retain muscle and take a longer term approach. 2 lbs a week is a good rate for someone your size.


Intermittent Fasting

Stu, I know you are familiar with this.

After researching it, I started using it 4 months ago.

I have tried two version.

1) 24 Hour Fast, once a week.

2) 16 Hour Fast, daily. Some end up being 12-14 hours. This is the one that I am using for now.

Weight Loss

I ended up losing 7 pounds.

I lost most of it in the abdominal ares.

M strength stayed in tact.

This indicates that my muscle mass loss was minimal.

72 Hours

From the research that I found, it appears fasting primarily burn fat not muscle during the first 72 hours.

However, anecdotal evidence indicates that 16 hours for men/14 hours for women appear to be the sweet spot.

Cynic

Initially, I was cynical of fasting.

Now my head hurts from having to re-examine that fact that maybe "the world isn't flat."

Below is a great podcast on this.

Beside the key point the time is "Bookmarked" providing the reference.

Intermittent Fasting: Science or Fiction
Dr. John Berardi, CSCS (PhD Nutrition)
NSCA Conference Lecture
http://www.nsca.com/videos/conference_l ... r_fiction/

Research

1) Anti Jet-Lag Diet (2:45 minutes)
Dr Charles Ehret
Argonne National Laboartory

2) Military Medicine, 2002 (4:05 minutes)
US to Korea 7.5x less Jet-Lag
Korea to USA 16.5 less Jet-Lag

3) Anti-Jet Lag Fast (4:55 minutes)
Dr Clifford Saper
Beth Israel Medical Center

False Myths (8:30 minutes)

4) *Eating small meals throughout the day speed up your metabolism. Wrong!

5) *It lowers stress hormones. Wrong!

4) *Reference: ISSN (International Society Of Sports Nutrition)

5) Metabolic Rate Increase during fasting (20:40 minutes)
Research shows fasting increase meatobolism up to 72 hours. After 72 hours metabolic rate decreases (General Adaptation Syndrome).

Not in lecture, data from another source.

Research Literature (26:15 minutes)

6) Alternate Day
Fast 36 hours, feed in a 12 hour window. Repeat.

7) Eat-Stop-Eat
Full Day Fast X 1-2 Days Per Week.

8) The Warrior Diet
20 hour fast everyday with a 4 hour feed.

9) LeanGains
16 hour fast with 8 hour feed everyday.

10) Berardi's Experiement with Various Fasting Methods (Chart) (32:30 minutes)
a) Month 1-2: One Day 24 Hour Fast Per Week X 2 Months. Dropped from 190 to 178 lbs. Good results
b) Month 3: Two Day 24 Hour Fast Per Week X 1 Month. Dropped from to 171 first week but didn't feel good.
c) Month 4: 16/8 Daily Fast. Weight increased to 175 felt good. Good Results.
d) Month 5: 16/8 Daily Fast with One 24 Hour Fast. Okay Results.
e) Month 6: 16/8 Daily Fast with Two 20/4 Fast. Nightmare.

11) "Friendliest Fast For Berardi (33:50 minutes)
a) 24 Hour Fast
b) 16/8 Daily Fast...feel like it is the most "Physique Friendly".

12) Before & After Pictures (37:00 minutes)

13) Muscle Gain (38:00 minutes)
Manupulating Fasting and Eating to increase Muscle Mass/Body Weight.

14) "Bigger/Smaller/Bigger Project" Chart (39:39 minutes)

15) Pictures of Results (40:08)
a) Before 170 lbs
b) After 190 lbs.

16) Women Cautionary Tale (40:20 minutes)
May not work the same with women, works for approximately 25%

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:05 am 
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Kenny, I think some form of IF is helpful for anyone once they are fit. Whether it's useful for someone not yet fit, is another question. However, for the fit, this article is one of the best recent article I've read. http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2014/04/ ... rched.html
This method seems to be the least stressful while retaining most of the benefit and the most sustainable over the long term.

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Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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Thanks TimD


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:17 am 
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stuward wrote:
Kenny, I think some form of IF is helpful for anyone once they are fit. Whether it's useful for someone not yet fit, is another question.


Intermittent Fasting For Non-Fit

Stu, I don't see why it work for someone fit individuals and and not be effective for "someone not yet fit".

If you have any information on that or could explain why, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Physiology

The same physiology would apply to a find and not yet fit individual.

1) Insulin: As we know, carbohydrates trigger insulin release as do some amino acids.

One of the problems with insulin is it shuts down the fat burning process. Fasting insure that insulin levels are virtually non-existant.
Thus, allowing fat to be utilized for fuel, fat burning.

2) Fasting: An elevation in adrenaline (epinephrine and nor-epinephrine) occur which increase fat oxidation (burn body fat).

Research shows that during the first 72 hours, fat is predominately the fuel used.

Human growth hormone, cortisol and glucagon (fat burning hormones) are elevated as well in a fasting state.

Quote:
However, for the fit, this article is one of the best recent article I've read. http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2014/04/ ... rched.html


It's a good article but I would reference. However, Berardi's presentation provide excellent research data on the benefits.

The 5:2 Diet
http://www.healthyfellow.com/511/altern ... ew-part-1/

Dr. Krista Varady's 5:2 Diet research has demonstrated the health benefits and weight loss effect of her Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Rather than giving you a laundry list, I'll stop there.

Quote:
This method seems to be the least stressful while retaining most of the benefit and the most sustainable over the long term.


Least Stressful Over Time

The same can be stated about the various fasting method.

The 16 hour fast is easily doable.

Let's say you eat up until 8pm and go to bed at 10pm and get up at 6am.

That means have fasted for 10 hours.

You then simply skip breakfast and start eating again at 12 noon.

Motivation

The biggest problem with any diet is motivation.

The average person can't maintain it.

That is why thousands of people make New Year's Resolutions to lose weight, exercise and become healthy each year and fail.

Bluntly speaking, they have a "Character flaw" in that area. It is a part of who they are and very few change.

As the saying goes, "A leopard doesn't change it's spots."

Successful vs Less Successful

Successful people are willing to do things less successful or unsuccessful won't.

With that said, one of the thing that make me crazy is...

"You can do anything you set your mind to."

This is one of the stupidest statement that anyone ever came up with.

No matter how bad I want it or work at it, I could never look like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Thus, goals need to be realistic.

Winning the Challenge

I host the Albuquerque (New Mexico) Strength Clinic each year.

In 2012, Dr. Jason Curtis (Sports Physiology) presented his research on his dissertation Winning The Challange. It involved motivation for the less motivated individuals in weight loss program.

As per Curtis' research, the emotional connection between a Personal Training and the less motivated weight loss individual is a huge factor in their success.

Curtis went on to state...

1) There was still a high drop out rate.

2) The success of the majority of individuals was still limited to a small few. That because these individuals were not motivated.

With in mind, Curtis stated there was some solace in those who's lives you make a difference in.

Holy Man

This movie with Eddy Murphy drives home Curtis' point above.

There was a storm. And thousands and thousands of starfish were washed up on the shore. And there was this beautiful little girl was running down the beach and she was picking up the starfish, she was frantically throwing them back into the ocean.

When I saw her doing this I said to her, 'Why are you doing that? You can only save a few before they die, what difference does it make?'

And she looked at me and she said, 'To THAT one, it makes a difference.' To THAT one, it makes a difference, that little girl said.

And she was right and at that very moment she was making a difference for that starfish and she was making a difference for herself too because she was connected, to that starfish.

And that's what life is all about, connecting. In fact that's the only time you're ever alive, really, is when you're connecting.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:37 am 
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Quote:
Intermittent Fasting For Non-Fit

Stu, I don't see why it work for someone fit individuals and and not be effective for "someone not yet fit".

If you have any information on that or could explain why, I'd be interested in hearing it.


Unfit people need more intense interventions than IF. They need to improve the foundation of their diet first. IF is fiddling in the margins, not foundation. It's like the debate between LISS and HIIT. Both are better than no exercise at all.

I can't give you studies as this is my impression based on what I've seen. There are a number of instances where IF doesn't work. I think it's because the individual has larger issues not addressed that overwhelm the impact of IF. Typically that means that a reduced intake for a short period results in excess snacking later that day or the next, resulting in higher calorie intake, not less.

Recently the old advice of "Breakfast is the most important meal" has been debunked, but it doesn't mean that skipping breakfast is always a good thing. If IF worked in all cases, skipping breakfast would clearly be positively correlated with fat loss, but it's merely neutral.

Anyway, Kenny, I don't mean to argue. IF is a great tool, and I was actually trying to add to that point, but given that the OP has never replied at all and his post was asking about extreme dieting, and, I assume, has a lot of weight to lose, Doing a PSMF with strength training is likely a better option for the short term, and learning to stop eating junk and get off the couch are likely the most important lessons for the long term.

_________________
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am
Posts: 1040
stuward wrote:
Quote:
Intermittent Fasting For Non-Fit

Unfit people need more intense interventions than IF. They need to improve the foundation of their diet first. IF is fiddling in the margins, not foundation. It's like the debate between LISS and HIIT. Both are better than no exercise at all.


I am not sure what you mean by marginal and foundational. I can guess that guessing is never good.

Quote:
I can't give you studies as this is my impression based on what I've seen. There are a number of instances where IF doesn't work.


That applies to everything.

Quote:
I think it's because the individual has larger issues not addressed that overwhelm the impact of IF. Typically that means that a reduced intake for a short period results in excess snacking later that day or the next, resulting in higher calorie intake, not less.


"I think" means you are guessing. So, the information you are provided is speculation that I find hard to digest.

Varady's research found that initially with the Alternate Day-5:2 Diet individuals would consume more food on the follow day.

However, once into the program their weekly caloric was still lower than than before.

Quote:
Recently the old advice of "Breakfast is the most important meal" has been debunked, but it doesn't mean that skipping breakfast is always a good thing. If IF worked in all cases, skipping breakfast would clearly be positively correlated with fat loss, but it's merely neutral.


I never stated that IF works in all cases.

It will work for some and not for others. That's true of any diet.

IF is simply another method of decreasing body fat/weight.

While research is great, the only way for anyone to know if anything will work for them is to try it.

One statement the defines my view on everything is...

"I guarantee it will NEVER work if you NEVER try it."

With that said, most of the things that I suggest, I have research, tried, and spoke with individuals who it worked for.

Kenny Croxdale



Anyway, Kenny, I don't mean to argue. IF is a great tool, and I was actually trying to add to that point, but given that the OP has never replied at all and his post was asking about extreme dieting, and, I assume, has a lot of weight to lose, Doing a PSMF with strength training is likely a better option for the short term, and learning to stop eating junk and get off the couch are likely the most important lessons for the long term.

_________________
Thanks TimD.


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