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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:21 pm 
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n00b
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Location: Centerville, UT
Hello. I'm 22 years old, 5'10" 150 lbs. I'm a pretty scrawny guy and I've picked up (and dropped) weight lifting several times in the last, oh, 7 years or so. I'm not completely inexperienced at weight training, but I haven't managed to stick to a program for more than a few months at a time. I just started up again a few weeks ago (hopefully I'll stick to the program this time), and I've been using Low Volume Training. I really like the idea and I have had some improvements with Low Volume Training.

However, a lot of times after a workout I don't feel sore the next day, or even later the same day. Should I be concerned that I'm not getting a good workout, or is this normal?

Here's my regimen: I have a 2-day split routine (push/pull) with weekends off (ABABAXX BABABXX). I warm up with a 5 minute jog, and then perform about 6 different exercises. Each exercise, I perform:
- a warm-up set (about 30-60% max with 15-20 reps, enough to get ready for the motion without wearing my muscles out)
- one good set (70-85% max with 7-12 reps -- preferably a weight that brings me to volitional failure after 6-10 reps)
- an extra set if the first one wasn't satisfactory (too light or too heavy, etc)

One potential problem might be my routines... for example my "pull" routine is: lats, hamstrings, back(general), lateral deltoid, biceps, abs. By the time I get to biceps, I've already used them in lat pulldowns and seated rows, and I'm wondering if I'm just not able to do some good curls after that.

Any thoughts or advice? Or is it normal to not feel sore?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:59 pm 
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You do not have to feel sore after a good workout. However, you can feel sore after a good workout, which is probably why the two are correlated in the minds of most.

I don't know if anyone has ever come up with a good explanation for delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), but I notice it when I push myself harder than I'm used to for a given exercise. For example, last week when I began incorporating walking lunges into my routine after a significant absense, I felt soreness in my glutes for a couple days afterwards. I simply wasn't used to using my glutes in that particular manner, and I felt sore as a result.

The real benchmark, though, should be your progress. And you don't need to be sore in order to improve.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:02 pm 
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PharmBoy84 wrote:
Any thoughts or advice? Or is it normal to not feel sore?


DOMS is highly idiosyncratic - some people always get sore after a workout, while others rarely do.

Don't spend too much time worrying about it - You'll know if your workouts are productive if you see increases in size and strength


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:47 pm 
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n00b
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Thanks guys, that makes me feel better about my workouts. Also maybe encourages me about doing squats and stuff that make it hard to walk the next day, haha.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:19 pm 
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One of my friends (a scrawny novice-18yrs old, who has not been lifting for long, but on the tennis team and athletic) always pushes himself extremely close to his max, does upside-down pyramids, and way too many forced reps.

I told him he needs to stop doing so many forced reps and not do so many advanced things like pyramiding down until he has developed a good foundation. He says he has not seen much gain, and I told him he might be overtraining. He replied that he has not gotten sore and his muscles arent that tired the day after.

Is it possible to overtrain without getting sore?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:13 pm 
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YoungGuns wrote:
Is it possible to overtrain without getting sore?


Yes.

Muscle soreness is probably the most obvious symptom of overtraining. But others include decreases in strength/performance, higher resting heart rate, and sleep disorders.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:22 pm 
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Let's see, works really really hard but doesn't get results? Sounds like a good program. :D

DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) is very commonly held up as "proof" that an exercise is working or not, but it's not really helpful. You can get sore without getting stronger and stronger without getting sore. I personally find it a helpful sign of when I worked hard, but the real proof is - can you lift more now than you could before? If your strength isn't going up, if your endurance isn't going up, if your ability to produce more power isn't going up, you're not accomplishing anything, sore or not.

I'd bet on that guy rapidly approaching overtraining or injury, or just getting frustrated by the lack of gains. Forced reps and pyramids and so on aren't great starting techniques; they're methods designed for getting more gains after you've already made the early, easy gains by just lifting the bar the same number of times week after week with more weight on it each time. :D

Hope that helps,

Peter

PS - Give your friend this website, tell him to post his routine so folks here can "tweak" it. That helped me strip down my routine to its most valuable core and arrange it for maximum benefits. Hard to justify throwing in some crappy pointless isolation exercise when you know Ironman is going to make fun of your routine when he sees it. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Yea, I've got some special taunting reserved and waiting for when pyramid-boy shows up! lol just kidding. I WILL tell him the pec dec and cable crossovers are a waste of time for anyone not doing precontest finishing touches though. And other such things.


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