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 Post subject: How is this complex?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:25 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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I know a couple of you guys do complexes. I'm thinking about doing this one:

Bent Over Rows x 6
High Pull x 6
Hang Clean x 6
Thruster x 6
Good Morning x 6

First set barbell, next dumbells, then switch back assuming I've got the energy left. Heh.

Is that a good one? Any suggestions for adjustment?

Another question...what's a good way to do Good Mornings with dumbells? Should I swap out for RDLs or something else?

Thanks,

Peter


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:40 am 
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For the good mornings with dumbbells you could hold them at your shoulders but I don't see any benifit over doing an RDL.

I like your complex. It looks like fun. I don't know how to judge these. Just try it see if it gets your blood pumping.

Stu


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:58 am 
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Just curious - what's a Thruster?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:02 am 
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It's a crossfit type exercise, sort of a front squat directly into a shoulder press. It's a power/metcon exercise.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:09 am 
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Pdell, what your describing is basically Javoreks BB1 and DB1 vomplex, just with order rearranged a bit. Should work out just fine. Can't reall go too wrong as long as you take basic movements (compound) and arrange them so one flows into the other.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:56 pm 
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TimD - yeah, I looked at complex I and at Alwyn Cosgrove's complexes when I wrote it up. I tried to sub in stuff I can do well for stuff that I find uncomfortable or I suck at really badly. So high pulls instead of upright rows (which both my shoulder), no snatch (standard weights, so the rotation kills me). I figure it's better to stick to stuff I do well and do it fast and correctly and save the skill work for different days.

It sounds like it should flow well but I wanted a second opinion. If I can get access to the weights tonight before BJJ class I'll rack up a barbell and two dumbbells and get going. Otherwise I'll do it tomorrow instead. I'll try it with the Good Morning first, if that sucks I'll swap out for an RDL on the fly. The GM will limit my weight the most, actually, I've never done them with more than 20kg.

Stephen - here is a barbell thruster, courtesy of crossfit.
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/Cros ... usters.wmv
I think they are lots of fun...originally I had Front Squat x 6 and Push Press x 6 and decided thrusters would be just as good, maybe better.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:00 am 
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@pdellorto:

Thanks for the video. It gave me an idea for a warm up next time - a set of thrusters (light barbell) followed by a set of overhead squats.

Hopefully I'll be able to start the workout afterwards! ;-)

Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:11 am 
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No problem. First I saw them was here, too, and that pushed me over the edge into crossfit. They are really good, and I was surprised at both how much work they are and how little weight it took for a nice heart-pumping workout.

Actually, I was looking forward to my complex tonight, but then the crossfit WOD was posted - 15-12-9, for time, of 135# Barbell Thrusters and 45# weighted pullups. Aargh, I want to do both. Done right, either should kill me. I'll have to flip a coin or something...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:29 am 
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LOL, hey Pdell, why not do both? Do you's first, very light, as a warm up (1 round BB, 1 round DB) active rest then hit the WOD.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:25 am 
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Good idea...but I saw it a little late, I just came back from class. Did the WOD (20kg chinups no problem, scaled the thrusters to 45 kg) and then some handstand practice and then BJJ.

Tomorrow I'm doing the complex, even if just as a warmup like you suggested before the WOD.

Good idea, I don't know why it didn't occur to me how useful a complex can be as a warmup...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:16 am 
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pdellorto wrote:
TimD - yeah, I looked at complex I and at Alwyn Cosgrove's complexes when I wrote it up. I tried to sub in stuff I can do well for stuff that I find uncomfortable or I suck at really badly. So high pulls instead of upright rows (which both my shoulder), no snatch (standard weights, so the rotation kills me). I figure it's better to stick to stuff I do well and do it fast and correctly and save the skill work for different days.

It sounds like it should flow well but I wanted a second opinion. If I can get access to the weights tonight before BJJ class I'll rack up a barbell and two dumbbells and get going. Otherwise I'll do it tomorrow instead. I'll try it with the Good Morning first, if that sucks I'll swap out for an RDL on the fly. The GM will limit my weight the most, actually, I've never done them with more than 20kg.

Stephen - here is a barbell thruster, courtesy of crossfit.
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/Cros ... usters.wmv
I think they are lots of fun...originally I had Front Squat x 6 and Push Press x 6 and decided thrusters would be just as good, maybe better.



That's wild. Upright rows bother my shoulders as well. Both barbell and dumbbell. Plus the barbell bother my wrists. Yet I am also fine with high pulls. I wonder if a lot of people are like that.

I like the thrusters. That's definitely going into my next cut.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:45 am 
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Hey IM, I think that's the case with a lot of people. When I do BB upright rows, I always use at least a clean gip (just outside shoulder width, arms hanging straight down). Anything any narrower bothers my wrists mainly, and to a lesser degree, my shoulders. In any complex, high pulls can be subbed in for snatches or cleans, it;s basically the same pulling motion. As to the thrusters, try them behind the neck from a back squat. We call them cheerleaders. I find it necessary to use a fairlywide grip (snatch width) for these. If you don't have impingements, they can be very useful in keeping balance in the shoulder girdle.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:58 pm 
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Ironman wrote:
That's wild. Upright rows bother my shoulders as well. Both barbell and dumbbell. Plus the barbell bother my wrists. Yet I am also fine with high pulls. I wonder if a lot of people are like that.


I wouldn't be surprised. I've seen upright rows on lists of dangerous exercises, omitted from exercise instruction books because it can hurt your shoulders, etc. But I've seen High Pulls recommended pretty much by everyone. My theory is that the Upright Row puts your shoulders into a mechanically poor position at the top - with the wrists bent, arms pulled down by the weight, tight to the chest. But a high pull uses more power, and the bar pretty much is weightless (or feels that way) at the top, where it hurts the most on an upright row. So I think that the top of the Upright Row is the painful position, but the High Pull gets around that by forcing you to apply that "top position" strength earlier to get the bar up, and then you just lower it (or drop it). My thought is that you don't really use the muscles in that disadvantageous position, but you still use the same muscles to get there. Same work (if not more), no pain.

I could be way wrong, I'm no expert. But that's how it seems to me.

Ironman wrote:
I like the thrusters. That's definitely going into my next cut.


They're really good stuff. I found them here, glad one of my posts showed them to someone else. You don't even need so much weight on them, not if you're doing bunches in a metcon, to get lots of good work out of them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Yea, thats what I did at the end of my last cut. I would load about 85 to 95 pounds. Then do 12 reps of high pulls, walk around for a minute to catch my breath and then go again. I did the same thing with clean and press.

I can't really do overhead squat or snatch. I don't seem to have the flexibility. Thrusters will work though. I never do clean and jerk because I can't load it heavy enough to need to jerk. Lowering the bar from a clean hurts my shoulders if I have more then 135 on there. And I use it for intervals most of the time anyway, with under 100 lbs.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:49 pm 
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So I did this complex Friday as a warmup for my Crossfit WOD (3 rounds of 50 double-unders, 75 squats). I didn't time it, just did smooth reps and trusted 60 reps was a sufficient warmup, then took a couple minutes to set up for the WOD and then did that.

I liked it. First I did the barbell version, than a dumbell version.

- used a 20kg barbell, because that's what I usually use for a Good Morning. Upside - everything was pretty smooth. Downside - 20kg is light for everything else. Maybe I should do RDLs, because I'm more comfortable using heavier weight on an RDL than on a Good Morning due to bar position.

- used 2x10kg dumbells. Good Mornings were impractical so I did RDLs. Should do that with the barbell too next time.

- my hang cleans suck. I need practice. This will be good practice.

- I was totally warmed up after one round of each. Not tired at all, just ready to go.

So next time I do this I'll use RDLs in both sets. For warmups, one set each of barbell and dumbells at a total of 20kg was fine. For work, I think I'd want to raise the weight...maybe do one of each at 20kg, then up the weight a bit (taking a breather as I do) and then bang through alternating sets with the barbell and dumbbells. My self-imposed 20kg limit on Good Mornings probably held me back a little, I'd have been happier doing 30-35 on the other lifts.

Lots of fun.

Peter


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