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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:14 am 
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Ok leg day. I want to do DL's I also want to lunges and maybe some leg extensions to really hit the quads. What does everyone think would be the best hard hitting heavy lifting leg workout that hits every musle? I know after dead I can't do calf raises they are beat by then. Any other ideas? This is how my workout will go today so far.

dead lifts 3 sets with one warm up

lunges 45 lb dbells 10 steps one way ten back another set with 50 lb dbells 8 steps one way 8 back

then leg extensions to really hit the quads. three sets as well

I alternate dl's and deep smith machine squats every week. Any other variations to tear my legs up? I need it guys for real. Heavy lifting non power lifting mind you but rep range between 8-12 reps or any other ideas for legs. I'd appreciate anything. thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:02 pm 
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I can think of 3 things I like to do in that rep range, front squats, side-to-side lunges, split-stance barbell squats, Calf Raises off an edge (so you can go "negative") with only 1 DB (alternating hands you hold it in). I guess that was 4. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:39 pm 
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leg extensions may not tear up your legs, but they will tear up your knees. Try hack squats for your quads.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:56 pm 
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well guys thanks for the replies im not sure i can do hack squats due to the fact i have pretty large gluts but will try ill try that and the side lunges should be a pretty good workout. thanks again


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:51 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Barbell Back Squats are the only quad exercise I do anymore. I do these low-bar with a relatively wide stance. My typical leg workout consists of the following:

Barbell Back Squats
Standard or Straight-leg Deadlifts
Standing Calf Raises (optional)

You can add lunges to this workout before or after the deadlifts.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:49 pm 
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My leg workout is a lot like Matt's.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:42 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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one of the most brutal programs i've ever had was doing clusters. Here's what i done,

** Clusters - front squats, 6 sets - 5 x 1.

- Reverse lunges with front squat grip 3 x 8

- Glute ham raise 3 x 8

**clusters work like this - its 6 sets of "5 x 1". So for set 1, you use around 90% (atleast) of your 1RM, do one rep, un rack, rest for 10 secs, do another rep, un rack , rest for 10 secs... do this 5 times. It's like 5 single reps with 10 second rest between them, and that makes up one set. So, obviously, once you have done your 5 single reps (with 10 secs rest between each one), you rest, then do it all again. 6 times in total.

This is a secret weapon I always have at the back of my mind if things go a little stale.

Be prepared to collapse into a heap when you do the lunges afterwards - that's a serious warning, lol, I done this and hit my knee off the floor and it bothered me for a few weeks...

Some food for thought anyway. Clusters on whatever form are extremely brutal, you kind of feel like it's a do or die situation.

You should only do them for 3-4 weeks at a time. If you try them you wont want to do them for longer than that anyway

KPj


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:43 am 
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Quote:
hoosegow wrote:
leg extensions may not tear up your legs, but they will tear up your knees.


There is a lot more "shear force" placed on the knees with leg extension. Plus, I there isn't much value in doing leg extensions.

Better quad movements are partial squats, squat, deadlifts, etc.

Quote:
Try hack squats for your quads.


Hack squats place some "shear force" on the knees as well. They kill my knees.

However for some individuals, hack squat work great.

Kenny Croxdale

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Thanks TimD.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:20 am 
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Quote:
KPj wrote:
one of the most brutal programs i've ever had was doing clusters. Here's what i done,

** Clusters - front squats, 6 sets - 5 x 1.

- Reverse lunges with front squat grip 3 x 8

- Glute ham raise 3 x 8

**clusters work like this - its 6 sets of "5 x 1". So for set 1, you use around 90% (atleast) of your 1RM, do one rep, un rack, rest for 10 secs, do another rep, un rack , rest for 10 secs... do this 5 times. It's like 5 single reps with 10 second rest between them, and that makes up one set. So, obviously, once you have done your 5 single reps (with 10 secs rest between each one), you rest, then do it all again. 6 times in total.


A research article just came out in the National Strength and Conditioning Journal on "Cluster Sets." Effects of Different Set Configurations on Barbell Velocity and Displacement During a Clean Pull.
Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research. 17(1):95-103, February 2003.

The research showed that "Cluster Sets" work best with power and speed movement rather than limit strength movements. Specifically "Undulating Cluster Sets."

"Undulating Cluster Sets" are "Complex Training." A hevier weighted power set is followed by a lighter weighted power set. The result being tha more fast twitch muscle fiber are called into action with the lighter weighted "Cluster Set."

Power and speed are enhanced with "Cluster Sets", especially "Undulating Cluster Sets," in part because the short rest periods (30 seconds or less), allowed restoration of ATP. ATP being a huge component in strength, power and speed movements.

Research shows that approximately 50% of APT is restored within 30 sconds, with 100% ATP restoration occuring in 3 minutes plus rest periods between sets.

The article noted that better improvements in limit strength occured with "Traditional Sets," in which 1-5 repetitions were completed with no "Cluster Set" rest periods taken between repetitions.

"Traditional Sets" worked better for limiit strength due to the fact that as the mucles tired in the movement more muscle fiber were called into play...the "Size Principle."

Since "Clean Pulls" is a power, rather than limit strength exercise., I wonder if a limit strength squat, bench press, etc replaced the "Clean Pull" power movement it the same results would apply.

Something to think about.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:52 am 
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Okay Kenny, I'm gonna try cluster sets. I'm asking you because you seem to have a good grasp on how to do these. I will try them for six weeks on squats and bench.

Right now, I can do 5X5 at 425 on squat. Should I drop down and do i set of 5 at 405 and then go down to WHAT and for how many?

On bench I can do 3X7 at 315. Same question.

If you can help, I'd appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:01 am 
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Erm, I think the point of Kenny's post was that you should NOT do cluster sets with squats and bench.

The research article suggests they are best for power movements, clean, snatch, push press whatever.

Side comment, the specific case of doing a heavy rep followed by a light one has been around for quite some time because I recall reading about this in high school 10 years ago when track and field throwers would vary their implement weights during practice, using heavier ones to "turn on" fibers and then using lighter ones to activate them faster.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:36 am 
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when you do the reverse lunges with the squat grip thats with a barbell on your shoulders right thats not with d bells? and they way you do that is standing still then stepping back then stepping forward stepping back and then stepping forward right?

also on my legs day yesterday I didn't do much I'll post it in my journal the thing is I still felt that I blasted my legs. I know what you guys are talking about with the leg extensions though I can feel it in my knees but its not painful I'm just aware of the pressure/force exerted on the knee.
Also if I do dl's should I also try to hit the hams in a different way? Leg curls for instance? My goal is muscle hypertrophy, obviously gaining size and i was told and read that the rep range for that is 8-12 reps. My main goals are to be huge meaning gain size but not be a solid brick of muscle that can't run move etc. I will be playing semi pro football very soon which will include three days of practice a week. I tend to lift 4 times a week should i change that up? I think I'll have to cut down on gym time. Im worried about dropping weight and strength when that happens. any ideas?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:07 pm 
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Now I understand limit strength movement. Thanks. Sorry for my stupidity.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:29 pm 
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Corless wrote
I will be playing semi pro football very soon which will include three days of practice a week. I tend to lift 4 times a week should i change that up?
End
Well, I would. Most periodized programs (even the conjugates) allow for an "in season" or "maint" mode, where you limit the volume, and just do a few top sets of a couple of top end reps for strength MAINTENANCE. This isn't the time to build, but to keep your levels up. 2-4 days per week depending on how you sched, a couple of basic exercises per session, to a couple of top work sets w/ low reps to keep reuperation as unhindered as possible.
Tim


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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Clusters sound a lot like Rest-Pause Training, which is more bodybuilding oriented. The main difference is that with the Rest-Pause Training you do several reps before pausing. They you perform a few more reps until failure. For example, you might do 5 reps, pause for 10 seconds, and then do 2 or 3 more.


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