ExRx.net

yes, unfortunately ant. pelvic tilt causes whatever abdominal fat you do have to be exaggerated, people without lordosis appear to have "flatter" stomachs than they truly do.

anyway - again i have spen ttime attempting to correct this through assess & correct style stretching exercises and then neanderthalnomore... i have become discouraged because I see no "passive" improvement.. i can conciously contract muscles as in #2 but this puts me under a lot of strain...

Harpoon, what strengthening exercises are you doing for abs, glutes and rhomboids? Weaknesses in those muscle groups are at the root of postural problems. It's hard to hold you shoulders back if your back is weak, for example. It's hard to correct anterior pelvic tilt if your glutes and abs are weak.

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Thanks TimD

i am currently repeating the last month of the NNM program ( http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... ore_part_v ) and in the months before i have only been doing posture-correcting training..

almost all of the main movements are variations of pulls and squats so rhomboids and glutes are pretty much all im doing... in fact im kind of worried about glute hypertrophy making my ass look too big ;)

as you can see, i can improve my posture when i am stationary and actively contract the "correcting" muscles... but maintaining this at all times, especially when moving around, is proving very difficult, and in the case of lordosis correction, having my glutes and lower abs contracted creates a ridiculous, stiff-looking walk. Im just not seeing where the "passive"correction is supposed to be coming in...

You just need to keep at it, and especially keep getting stronger.

A (overly) simple way of looking at is, think of your joint as being in the middle of two elastic bands, looped round each other, and pulling away from each other. Your "joint" aligns right where the bands meet. At "rest" (not actively pulling either band) the thicker (stronger) elastic band is going to stretch the thinner (weaker) elastic band.

Think of the thicker band in your case as your hip flexors and quads. Think of the thinner bands as being the glutes and abs. In order to change the "alignment" of the hips, you need to make those thin bands thicker. To make the bands thicker, you need to make them stronger.

In cases where posture is quite poor, the first step is just to learn how to use the muscles that aren't doing their job properly. I refer to this as getting proper "function" of the right muscles. When you have this function, you then need to build on it - make them strong!

Unfortunately, strengthening muscles takes time. I think you're on the right track, you just need to keep at it.

This is where I want to say that good training is corrective in nature. You shouldn't, in most cases, need to do a "corrective" training program. A good training program IS corrective. Going back to your example with hip flexors/quads vs glutes/abs, all this really means is that your training program should include a lot more work for your glutes and abs, compared to your quads/hip flexors, and plenty of mobility for those tight hips, too! In reality, most people need to approach training like this anyway. In a general sense, what makes you "stronger" also makes you "healthier". I would bet that if you purely focused on increasing your squat, you would need to really hammer the glutes, hamstrings, abs, and upper/middle back. It's not coincidence, really. Weakness is weakness whether you're trying to squat more or stand in better posture.

Also, the best "posture" is one that constantly moves. The worse posture is one that stays in the same position for hours. You don't necessarily need to walk around in uncomfortable positions. Just make constant "corrections" and a conscious effort to move around more.

KPj

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Thanks TimD

thanks for the replies

1. by definition, aren't the quads and hip flexors playing an important role at some portion of the squat?

2. i just feel like, i could get my squat or deadlift up really high, and have really strong glutes, but they still wouldn't impact my pelvic position until i actively flex them. Thats the issue im trying to understand....

3. Also, I feel that the glutes don't correct pelvic tilt as much as the abs, or stomach, or whatever muscle is working when I kind of "pull up and in" my stomach - i'm not sure which muscles they are - anyone know how I could target them?. If I flex the glutes too hard it kind of causes me to "hump"or "thrust"my hips forward like at the top of a deadlift, making my legs look like this \ from the side instead of straight and perpendicular to the floor |

1. Quads, yes. Hip flexors tend to flex the hips.

2. Sorry that this is hard. Life isn't always as easy as we'd like.

3. They work together. If you're not sure what is contracting, it's not likely that we, who are not there in person, can tell. Probably planks, pallofs, roll-outs, fall-outs, etc., etc. will target it.

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Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

Hi,

thanks for all the extra helpful information! Very good thread here, especially the part about how to program these exercises/stretches/activations after the 8-week phase.

I hope the NNM program will also positively benefit my posture, I'm experiencing the same symptoms as Harpoon, and also have quite the same body look.

I also suspect lots of my problems came further after a 2006 accident which effectively shorted my left femur.

I will also incorporate extra daily hip flexor/quad stretches, as that seems recommended.

so glad to have you aboard
you will be a tremendous asset to this board.

Harpoon, Andy 88, I also have the same symptoms as you two. I have gotten a lot of useful information from this thread and I hope to put some pictures up shortly so that we can discuss and compare. My uncorrected posture looks terrible in the mirror, but I guess everyone's would look bad if they were completely relaxed? but I wouldn't know for sure as I reckon I've been this way since I was about 15 and I'm 27 now. The worst I have been was a few years ago when I was about 21, I was at university and really inactive and had poor diet and drank a lot of alcohol. I slipped a lumbar disc and was in pain for many months. Since I really started to notice there was something wrong with my posture, I've been to countless physio's, doctors specialists etc but none have them have ever really helped beyond treatment of pain symptoms, except maybe suggesting a few stretches without much background info.

I am now pain free and have helped myself over the last 3 years with static stretching and I've become more active. I have also been foam rolling for about a year. I have also had chiropractic treatment on my neck, which I believe has corrected my forward head posture to a degree. I am active again and do a lot of cycling and walking. My diet is pretty good, I don't drink at home but maybe have one heavy binge drinking session once per month. I have never lifted weights so I think the NNM routine would be too advanced for me.

I think there is still a long way to go for me to get to an ideal posture and I hope it's not too late and that I've not left it too long? I'm about to start on a 4 month program which will involve mainly activation work with some light weight work, static stretching and foam rolling all incorporated.

Should i not be doing shrugs if i have rounded shoulders, winged scapula, &c.?

No, they should be fine really, just that you could be doing a more corrective exercise instead. They might contribue to some lifting of the scapula, but winging is more a rhombiod/serratus issue.

I've not done a shrug in about a year but my upper traps are still growing through facepulls and cleans. Facepulls will address many issues and provide plenty of stimulus for the traps.

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I've been doing scapular push-ups, dumbbell raises, dumbbell rows (and db rear delt rows), as well as various resistance band exercises and stretches.

I was just wondering if throwing in a few shrugs after doing my shoulder presses would be counterproductive. Should i be doing lots of scapular depression training to compensate? I'm not even entirely sure what scapular depression entails. Do pull-ups count?

Have you been following the NNM program to the letter and for how long.

It would probably be better to start a new thread, detailing how long you've been training, what your programs have been like past and present.
Then we can see how much pushing versus pulling you've been doing and how you've come to the conclusion you have winged scapula. Also, what stretching you have been doing. The wrong stretches could be counter productive.

Scapular depression happens when you pull your shoulders back and down, think of putting your scaps in your back pockets. Do this a few times without any weights, while you sit watching TV for example and you'll get a feeling for it. This is the feeling you need to replicate when doing weighted movements. The temptation is to use way too much weight though and you'll notice that its much harder to achieve this. So start REALLY light and only add enough weight that allows you to maintain correct form. This is important. You can go heavy when you have corrected your issues an a few months.

By the way, pull-ups can never hurt in my opinion, they should be a staple in all programs.

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I do some stuff from the NMN program but mostly i'm just "winging" it, so to speak! I did too much push stuff for awhile so i've been trying to do a lot more pulling.

This is my favorite stretch http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Pectorali ... Towel.html

I do it with a resistance band and i can feel a nice pull in my chest.

I've been reading some more of Cressey's suggestions and discovered dip shrugs so i think i'll give those a try.

Edit- And here's a quote from him: "Also, worthy of note is the fact that regular shrugs will simply reinforce one of the imbalances that this program seeks to correct in the first place."

Well there you go, you answered your own question

If you want the benefit of the program, I suggest you follow it to a 'T' and then pick and choose. It will take 8-12 weeks as far as I can remember. I did it and it wasn't as much fun as doing 'your own thang' But think of this, where will you be in 12 weeks if you dont...probably right where you are now, except 12 weeks older.

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