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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:02 am 
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n00b
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hey guys..im new here and here i am

before i had shoulder injury,3 times, last happened a year ago..now i've been going to gym doing chest workouts only, the man there told us that we had to build chest first before any other else,so i did it 3x/week together with shoulders and some arm and back exercises..its been 3 weeks and i found progress in my arms and shoulders, chest, is somewhat yes but not that great as my shoulders and arms..now i wanted to move further more..i want a hole body workout and sooner i'll be taking supplements, 'cause when i started going to gym its just experimental, you know, how will it affect me and my shoulder..

now i set this workout program..
BASICALLY I'M GONNA BE FOLLOWING THIS LINK
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/charles3.htm

Day 1..
Chest
Flat BB 70lbsx6x6x6(this one is heavy for me but last week i only had 4 reps, now improving) sometimes i add 40lbsx12 at end
Flat DB 20lbsx10x10x10
Inclined BB 40/50lbsx10x10x10
Inclined DB 20lbsx10x10x10
DB Pullovers 20lbsx10x10x10

BACK(let me see how far i can go but this is what i usually do)
BB/DB Bent Over Row 20lbsx10x10x10
Chin Ups
Pull Ups
*This seems enough

DAY 2 - LEGS/ABS
legs are not on my focus but abs is...mainly ill just follow from the link with more intense on abs

DAY 3 - RESt

DAY 4 - Shoulder and Arms
Some Laterals/Front raises
Arnold/Military Presses
Upright Rows
Some Biceps/Tricep 20repsx2 set
them i will be following this article..
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_repair/pushups_face_pulls_and_shrugs

DAY 5 - REST

This routine seems good for me..DAY 1 also uses shoulder, DAY-2 and 3, made my shoulder and back rest. DAY -4 is the moment of truth, i've been struggling on shoulder and at my back, the DAY -4 article seems to be the answer, i guess..next 3 days will be recovery..but i may add saturday for some chest/cardio..

DIET..

Coming Soon..
Basically Protein Powder for supp and the rest is good protein source like potatoes, nuts, eggs, meat..i'll make some research or you may help me..

That's all guys..
Comments/Suggestions Violent Reactions will be greatly appreciated..[/url]


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:20 am 
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mgpugong wrote:
...
DAY 2 - LEGS/ABS
legs are not on my focus but abs is...mainly ill just follow from the link with more intense on abs

...


Legs should be your focus. The hormonal response from working the largest muscles in the body will provide a growth stimulus to the entire body. Besides, skinny legs look stupid.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:42 am 
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I've been thinking about this for a while now, and although I think Charles Polguin is a very smart guy, I don't think German Volume Training is appropriate for a beginner. In order to do 10x10, you would have to use such a low weight, and form would suffer so bad that I don't think that you would get as much out of it if you went with a 3x5 or 5x5 program. GVT is more appropriate and a change up later on in your training, once you have developed strength and are able to use proper form consistently.

Prioritize your leg training. In particular, SQUAT.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:53 am 
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Squat, squat, and squat some more. When you are done, deadlift.

Your routine sucks until you start squatting.

Potatoes are pure carbs. Stay away from them.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:29 am 
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The guys are right, here - legs need to be your focus. Don't listen to Mr. Chesty at the gym.

I used to work with a guy who took steroids and lifted heavily...for his upper body. He had an upper back and chest and arms like a gorilla. Just huge. But he had legs like linguini. Why he didn't bother to squat and take advantage of all that growth hormone he was taking, I don't know. I always think of him when I see routines that are basically chest + triceps, back + biceps, with an anemic leg day.

If I had to give you three pieces of advice, probably a bit too harshly:

- Legs need to be your focus, not abs and chest. Grow the legs and everything else will come with it. Hoosegow is right - squat and deadlift.

- The GVT ("German Volume Training") method seems to work, but I'm not sure it's such a good approach for a beginner. If this is your first real training, that's a heck of a big jump. From no reps to 100 reps of each of 2 exercises plus 6 sets of other work, 3 days out of every 5? That's a big jump. I'd probably do day 1, then suffer soreness so bad I couldn't walk for a week, and then have to start over. If you're an intermediate lifter looking for size, I think it's probably a winner.
There is a whole sticky of beginner's routines that work up the volume and resistance pretty sensibly, and might work better for you. All of them are leg-centric, for the reasons I mentioned and the other guy's did, too.
I think CP is clearly a smart guy, but I bet if you went to his training facility he wouldn't stick you right on GVT, and he wouldn't let you do "less legs, more abs."

- You're not doing a routine, you're doing two. You're doing GVT plus extra work from Cressey's excellent article on shoulders. That's even more volume on top of a volume-maximized program. Probably the best advice I ever saw was here:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... for_skinny

"If you combine 20 different great programs, and do them all at once, you're going to get $h1t results. You have to stick to one thing for a while." - Joe DeFranco

This is especially true when you're starting out.

I hope that helps. I don't mean to come off as "cranky forum vet" here. But I think you'd do better on a more basic program, and more focus on the legs.

Peter


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:44 am 
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stuward wrote:
mgpugong wrote:
...
DAY 2 - LEGS/ABS
legs are not on my focus but abs is...mainly ill just follow from the link with more intense on abs

...


Legs should be your focus. The hormonal response from working the largest muscles in the body will provide a growth stimulus to the entire body. Besides, skinny legs look stupid.


yeah i saw one, JohnyBravo guy, looks so stupid, arms twice wider than legs..ROFL
anyway im looking for an answer why in every forums, in every workout logs, squat is there, you just said it.. now im making it my priority for that day...anyway i am wondering what legs exercise i should make,..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:55 am 
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Squats, and Deadlifts.

If you look in that sticky, you'll find them in every workout.

Starting Strength: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week (and deadlift 3x every 2 weeks).

Mahler beginner's routine?: Lift 2x a week, squat 2x a week.

Ironman Magazine Get Started: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week

That's all Back Squats, like this:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Qua ... Squat.html

Even the bodyweight routine in that sticky squats:
Simplefit has you do bodyweight squats, 3x a week.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:03 am 
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stuward wrote:
I've been thinking about this for a while now, and although I think Charles Polguin is a very smart guy, I don't think German Volume Training is appropriate for a beginner. In order to do 10x10, you would have to use such a low weight, and form would suffer so bad that I don't think that you would get as much out of it if you went with a 3x5 or 5x5 program. GVT is more appropriate and a change up later on in your training, once you have developed strength and are able to use proper form consistently.

Prioritize your leg training. In particular, SQUAT.


i just made those volumes for chest, cause that it what basically told us, the gym im currently attending now has very limited equips. and also just cautious for my shoulder..35x5x5x5 is my heavy, the DBs where so far good for me, cause the lighter ones seems so light. i think i made them in proper form consistently and had seen progress on BB from 35x4 last week to 35x6 now and looking for 35x8 next week..anyway, any variation you may suggest?

squat, yes i will..even i dont see anyone doing it here..that why i found it's weird before..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:05 am 
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hoosegow wrote:
Squat, squat, and squat some more. When you are done, deadlift.

Your routine sucks until you start squatting.

Potatoes are pure carbs. Stay away from them.


alright man..squats in potatoes out..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:16 am 
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Most people don't squat. They don't deadlift either. However, those that do make progress far beyond those that don't. The reason people don't do them is that they're hard. The rewards come down the road through more functional strength and better performance. They're actually very humbling starting out because you can't use a lot of weight at first, especially compared to leg press, but compared to other exercises, you can progress very quickly.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:36 am 
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pdellorto wrote:
The guys are right, here - legs need to be your focus. Don't listen to Mr. Chesty at the gym.

I used to work with a guy who took steroids and lifted heavily...for his upper body. He had an upper back and chest and arms like a gorilla. Just huge. But he had legs like linguini. Why he didn't bother to squat and take advantage of all that growth hormone he was taking, I don't know. I always think of him when I see routines that are basically chest + triceps, back + biceps, with an anemic leg day.

If I had to give you three pieces of advice, probably a bit too harshly:

- Legs need to be your focus, not abs and chest. Grow the legs and everything else will come with it. Hoosegow is right - squat and deadlift.

- The GVT ("German Volume Training") method seems to work, but I'm not sure it's such a good approach for a beginner. If this is your first real training, that's a heck of a big jump. From no reps to 100 reps of each of 2 exercises plus 6 sets of other work, 3 days out of every 5? That's a big jump. I'd probably do day 1, then suffer soreness so bad I couldn't walk for a week, and then have to start over. If you're an intermediate lifter looking for size, I think it's probably a winner.
There is a whole sticky of beginner's routines that work up the volume and resistance pretty sensibly, and might work better for you. All of them are leg-centric, for the reasons I mentioned and the other guy's did, too.
I think CP is clearly a smart guy, but I bet if you went to his training facility he wouldn't stick you right on GVT, and he wouldn't let you do "less legs, more abs."

- You're not doing a routine, you're doing two. You're doing GVT plus extra work from Cressey's excellent article on shoulders. That's even more volume on top of a volume-maximized program. Probably the best advice I ever saw was here:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... for_skinny

"If you combine 20 different great programs, and do them all at once, you're going to get $h1t results. You have to stick to one thing for a while." - Joe DeFranco

This is especially true when you're starting out.

I hope that helps. I don't mean to come off as "cranky forum vet" here. But I think you'd do better on a more basic program, and more focus on the legs.

Peter


thanks man..it's not that harsh, i will even kick your ass if you praise it..LOL

i accomplish the chest routine for 3 weeks but somehow now i felt it hard when resting,i knew something is bad..
i will definitely read those link you gave me and should use there routine for now..
im looking forward now to a 5 day workout,with rest intervals..somewhat chest/back-REST-Legs/abs-REST-Shoulder/arms..and making it 3 sets with 5 reps..does it sounds better now?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:42 am 
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pdellorto wrote:
Squats, and Deadlifts.

If you look in that sticky, you'll find them in every workout.

Starting Strength: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week (and deadlift 3x every 2 weeks).

Mahler beginner's routine?: Lift 2x a week, squat 2x a week.

Ironman Magazine Get Started: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week

That's all Back Squats, like this:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Qua ... Squat.html

Even the bodyweight routine in that sticky squats:
Simplefit has you do bodyweight squats, 3x a week.


then probably should do it everytime i go to gym..starting weight?around 40lbsx5x5?..give me an idea men..thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 am 
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stuward wrote:
Most people don't squat. They don't deadlift either. However, those that do make progress far beyond those that don't. The reason people don't do them is that they're hard. The rewards come down the road through more functional strength and better performance. They're actually very humbling starting out because you can't use a lot of weight at first, especially compared to leg press, but compared to other exercises, you can progress very quickly.


alright men..it will be great if im the only person doing it here..haha..
if it does make more progress quickly it will definitely fit me, as for now i can only afford Amino 6000 as supp..i guess squats will make it more effective..


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:45 pm 
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mgpugong wrote:
pdellorto wrote:
Squats, and Deadlifts.

If you look in that sticky, you'll find them in every workout.

Starting Strength: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week (and deadlift 3x every 2 weeks).

Mahler beginner's routine?: Lift 2x a week, squat 2x a week.

Ironman Magazine Get Started: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week

That's all Back Squats, like this:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Qua ... Squat.html

Even the bodyweight routine in that sticky squats:
Simplefit has you do bodyweight squats, 3x a week.


then probably should do it everytime i go to gym..starting weight?around 40lbsx5x5?..give me an idea men..thanks


Start with an empty bar and increase the weight by about 10# each workout. Look at the stickies for "Starting Strength". There is a link to a web site with tons of info. It's also highly recommended that you buy the book. The technique and programming advise is well worth it.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:19 pm 
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stuward wrote:
mgpugong wrote:
pdellorto wrote:
Squats, and Deadlifts.

If you look in that sticky, you'll find them in every workout.

Starting Strength: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week (and deadlift 3x every 2 weeks).

Mahler beginner's routine?: Lift 2x a week, squat 2x a week.

Ironman Magazine Get Started: Lift 3x a week, squat 3x a week

That's all Back Squats, like this:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Qua ... Squat.html

Even the bodyweight routine in that sticky squats:
Simplefit has you do bodyweight squats, 3x a week.


then probably should do it everytime i go to gym..starting weight?around 40lbsx5x5?..give me an idea men..thanks


Start with an empty bar and increase the weight by about 10# each workout. Look at the stickies for "Starting Strength". There is a link to a web site with tons of info. It's also highly recommended that you buy the book. The technique and programming advise is well worth it.


i will probably be reading the "Starting Strength" by tomorrow, cant think of that long discussion today..and will give that routine a shot this weekend, w/ empty bar just how to do it the right way..i think i will start with 10lbs at Day-1 and 2..then Day-3 will make the first set by 20lbs and the next set by 10 (heavy to light..as i read is more proper) and somehow may add some light shoulders hitting rotators cuff ..
My last 3 week at gym had gained somewhat strength to me, so making the 2nd week by 20lbs ,so i guess wont make a big deal if then back to 10lbs then..stick to 20lbs up to week 4..im planning to stick with it for 4 weeks..

i think i am around 15-20% BF..im looking to gain around -3/5% BF every week..

guess i talk much now..LOL..
how do you think with my program?..can i stick with it?..


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