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 Post subject: Pain in my knee
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:46 pm 
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A couple of days ago I did my first routine of squat and deadlift, I suppose it will make my legs and back sore next days, but it won't, my left knee hurts instead (well the right one a little bit too but it is not an issue). I followed all the way Ripptoe explains in his book so I am thinking if these exercises are not for everyone. Has Anyone had a problem like this?


Last edited by alcas on Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:45 pm 
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are you enganging your glutes and are you keeping your knees from going over your toes?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:27 am 
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They are not for absolutely everyone, but they are good exercises for most people. Don't give up on them just because you have some discomfort the first time you try them.

First of all, starting both on the same day might not be the best plan. Maybe work on one of them for a week or two, then add the other.

Second, how much of weight did you use? Starting a new lift, particularly these, should be done with very light weight. The first few times it should just be enough to make you feel like there is a little load. You should be focused on form. When starting any lift, and especially these, you should be doing fairly high volume, practicing and getting the feel, or "greasing the groove" as we say. After you really have the form down, you can start increasing the weight. Yes, keeping the knees pointing in the same direction as the toes is important. The usual tendency is for the knees to collapse in. You should feel that you are driving them out to the sides as you go up. It helps if you push your feet apart as you go up as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:45 am 
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It's common for untrained people to have unstable knees. That's likely what's causing the pain and it will go away. As Doc said, take it slow and progressive, paying attention to form. Work on achieving proper depth, even if it means dropping significant weight from the bar, even going to body weight squats for a while. I don't know if it's an issue in your case but many people have the idea that proper depth is where the knee makes a 90* angle. That's wrong. That's the point where the knee is most unstable. You need to get much deeper than that, and then you will start strengthening the knees.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:30 am 
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Quote:
First of all, starting both on the same day might not be the best plan.


As I understand what you and stu say is that I need to custome my knees before since they are not prepair for this load, but is it natural to feel a pain in the first days? shouldn't I feel any soreness in my legs or back instead?

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Second, how much of weight did you use?


I am lifting just 135 #, I weight 155#, I´ve heard everyone has to lift at least its own weight, is it true?


Quote:
It's common for untrained people to have unstable knees. That's likely what's causing the pain and it will go away. As Doc said, take it slow and progressive, paying attention to form. Work on achieving proper depth, even if it means dropping significant weight from the bar, even going to body weight squats for a while. I don't know if it's an issue in your case but many people have the idea that proper depth is where the knee makes a 90* angle. That's wrong. That's the point where the knee is most unstable. You need to get much deeper than that, and then you will start strengthening the knees.


I have followed all advises from Mark Ripptoe´s book and He says I have to go deep, so I try to do it as well as I can, but I do not feel any work in my harmstring or glutes as it should do when you go deep. Ok, my flexibility is not the best but at least I go below the horizontal. Is it normal not to feel the harmstring or I am not doing in the right way?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:37 am 
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caangelxox wrote:
are you enganging your glutes and are you keeping your knees from going over your toes?


As I read Knees are suppose to pass a little bit over the toes, isn´t it?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:18 pm 
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In Mark's pictures, the toes are indeed well past the toes. The old "Convention Wisdom" used to be that letting the knees go past the toes was bad for your knees. That's not true, however I find my knees prefer it when I sit back further in a squat. It's a factor of geometry though, it's just not possible to squat without the knees over the toes unless you have really big feet and short legs.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:27 pm 
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alcas wrote:
...
I am lifting just 135 #, I weight 155#, I´ve heard everyone has to lift at least its own weight, is it true? ...


This may be the problem. Start lighter (say about 95#) and work up to it gradually (add 5#/week). With some practice, most can squat there weight after a while. Still, it's not possible for everyone. You should start with a light weight and gradually increase it. Note the normal for an untrained man your weight is a little over 100#.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifti ... dards.html


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:21 pm 
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You have to find what's right for you. Using some percentage of body weight isn't a good way to start.

You started out talking about both squat and deadlift. You'll probably be able to deadlift heavier at first. Start with a very light weight. I'd say the empty bar (20 kg) for squat), 40 or 45 kg for deadlift. Then practice the movement. When you know it well, then add some weight.

I don't know where you "should" feel pain. It depends on your previous training, body proportions, etc. Generally you should not feel pain in your knees, so reduce the weight, and correct form until you don't.

The part about knees that I was talking about is the direction the knees go being the same direction as the feet point. If the knees go a bit farther past the ends of the toes, not a big deal. As you practice the movement, work on getting your hips to back more, but Rippetoe has shown that it's not a huge problem. The knees leaning in while you are driving up is a problem; keep them out.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:09 pm 
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I also have knee problems, but I think the cause of my problem is my feet. I have very high arches and Heel Spurs. I have custom orthotics for them but my feet feel so unstable, mostly when barefoot.

Before I was squating like 170 and my knees were trembling lol (moving side to side) as I pushed up.

I only squat like 100-120 now, while barefoot.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:01 pm 
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I'm gonna focus driving my knees out and lowerering the load, I hope it fixes the problem.

Thanks for your advices.


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