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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Guys I need a lot of help, Ive read the stickys and everything but I really need help...

OK Question Number 1- is it important to work out your abs? by that I mean, since there is no such thing as spot reduction, what can working out abs do?

Question Number 2 - Do some muscles need ore rest than others.. By that I mean can I do biceps more often than say legs..

Question Number 3- Does whey really help?

Question Number 4- I do Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling, what types of lifts are focused in building say guard muscles and holding strength and holding stamina. By holding arm strength, I mean the strength it takes to pull someone into you when theyre say in your guard and when I say holding stamina, I mean literally the stamina needed to hold and keep someone down in your guard to have better control over them

Question Number 5 - Can you work out more than once a day? Sometimes during a lifting day I got a jits class or a competition class, should I not lift on those days? And also can you work small muscle groups outside of the weight room after you lift like abs without reaching overtraining?

Last Question - Can anyone point me to a good diet that helps build muscle, but lets you stay at the same weight or even lose weight?

I'm so sorry for asking all of these questions for my first time


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Immortal wrote:
Guys I need a lot of help, Ive read the stickys and everything but I really need help...

OK Question Number 1- is it important to work out your abs? by that I mean, since there is no such thing as spot reduction, what can working out abs do?

Question Number 2 - Do some muscles need ore rest than others.. By that I mean can I do biceps more often than say legs..

Question Number 3- Does whey really help?

Question Number 4- I do Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling, what types of lifts are focused in building say guard muscles and holding strength and holding stamina. By holding arm strength, I mean the strength it takes to pull someone into you when theyre say in your guard and when I say holding stamina, I mean literally the stamina needed to hold and keep someone down in your guard to have better control over them

Question Number 5 - Can you work out more than once a day? Sometimes during a lifting day I got a jits class or a competition class, should I not lift on those days? And also can you work small muscle groups outside of the weight room after you lift like abs without reaching overtraining?

Last Question - Can anyone point me to a good diet that helps build muscle, but lets you stay at the same weight or even lose weight?

I'm so sorry for asking all of these questions for my first time


1. Well, it strengthens the muscles. If you want pretty abs though, diet is 90% of the battle. However, uf you are a wrestler, you should not be fat anyhow unless a heavyweight.

2. I don't know. Why don't you keep it simple and include at least one rest day, but no more than 3 between lifts. That's the National Strength coach recommendations. Just do it the same for both and worry about refinements, when you are much more advanced.

3. No. Normal food is fine. There's no magic fairy powder,

4. I think there is a lot of disagreement here. Some people think that the standard (football oriented) programs are not optimal. Others think they are fine. If you are new, I expect any general program will make you a better wrestler. You may move up a class, but really the lighter classes are tougher anyhow.

5. As long as you are not competing, I don't think it's bad (is beneficial) to lift on days where you have practice. I would think about not lifting the day before or morning before a match, though, so you do your best there. For that matter, depending on your competitive status, may want to cut the lifting while you are in season.

-----------------------------


The above is personal opinion and it's been over 20 years since I wrestled. I was advised to lift (had some wrestling talent, but coach wanted me stronger). I didn't lift and honestly think that was a mistake.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:29 pm 
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what do u mmean for number 3?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Immortal wrote:
Guys I need a lot of help, Ive read the stickys and everything but I really need help...

OK Question Number 1- is it important to work out your abs? by that I mean, since there is no such thing as spot reduction, what can working out abs do?


Working abs will not reduce the fat, that is done by dieting. You can strengthen the abs which helps in supporting the spine. The abs are worked as stabalizers in all the basic exercises.

Quote:
Question Number 2 - Do some muscles need ore rest than others.. By that I mean can I do biceps more often than say legs..


Larger muscles take longer to recover. Read Dr. Squats article on finding the perfect split if you want more details.

Quote:
Question Number 3- Does whey really help?


Yes it helps. Consuming a higher percentage of protein than normal will help you achieve a more muscular, lean body. Whey allows you to tailor your diet more conveniently. You can do the same with just whole food but it requires more effort in planning and preparation.

Quote:
Question Number 4- I do Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling, what types of lifts are focused in building say guard muscles and holding strength and holding stamina. By holding arm strength, I mean the strength it takes to pull someone into you when theyre say in your guard and when I say holding stamina, I mean literally the stamina needed to hold and keep someone down in your guard to have better control over them


Doing your sport is the best training. I'll leave this question to others.

Quote:
Question Number 5 - Can you work out more than once a day? Sometimes during a lifting day I got a jits class or a competition class, should I not lift on those days? And also can you work small muscle groups outside of the weight room after you lift like abs without reaching overtraining?


You can work out more than once a day but you need to be aware that each workout will affect performance during the next and your recovery from the previous. Lighter, skill based workouts will have less effect than heavier workouts. Schedule your workouts with this in mind. It's not the size of the muscles worked that matters but how hard you train them.

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Last Question - Can anyone point me to a good diet that helps build muscle, but lets you stay at the same weight or even lose weight?


Read "The Anabolic Diet". You can probably find a free download if you don't want to buy the e-book.

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I'm so sorry for asking all of these questions for my first time


No apology needed.

Stu


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:10 pm 
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I will look that up, but can abs actually make lifts better?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Immortal wrote:
I will look that up, but can abs actually make lifts better?

Do you mean having a 6-pack? Just cause you got abs doesnt mean your core is strong, Being able to deadlift 400lbs means you have a strong core.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:54 pm 
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hmmm ok and I got a few more questioins, should I make a new post or ask em here?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:50 pm 
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You can ask here.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Immortal wrote:
what do u mmean for number 3?


Disregard Apolyton. He has no idea what he is talking about. You'd get better answers from.....well pretty much anyone......


1) No, in most situations you don't need direct ab work.

2) Legs might need a bit more, but mostly they are the same. Don't believe anything you hear about abs or calves. those 2 muscles have more mythology surrounding them than ancient Greece.

3) Yes, it is a very fast acting source of protein, which makes it anabolic and very good around workouts.

4) Well the back muscles probably come more into play but you need to work things evenly.

5) yes


Just keep processed food to a minimum and if you want to lose weight, just cut down on the carbs.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:34 am 
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Ironman wrote:
those 2 muscles have more mythology surrounding them than ancient Greece.

Lol'ed at this


1) read this: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/best_of_abs

2) Larger muscles usually need more recovery than others, but it's all about the intensity of training the muscles.
Explanation: Advanced bodybuilder sometimes use a 6-way split (meaning splitting the body into 6 different areas, like back/quads/chest/rest/shoulders/hams/arms) and totally destroy the muscle they train that day by doing a lot of excercisers and techniques for 1 muscle.
Because of that the muscle needs a lot of recovery (let's say a week).
A beginner doesn't need to do that, and can make progress by doing starting strength or madcow 5x5, these programs let you train 3 times a week, but you train your complete body every session. Because you train it very often you don't need to completely destroy the muscles.
I hope you understand the explanation.

3) Yeah, it can help but research has shown that casein might be even better after training, pre-workout: whey is best.

4) Pdellorto might help more with this, but I'd say by getting stronger overall, you'll be able to guard better, have more holding strength and holding stamina.

5) Stuward's answer


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:33 am 
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Immortal wrote:
Guys I need a lot of help, Ive read the stickys and everything but I really need help...


Hi Immortal,

I find it hard to post at this site because there are so many smart people. So, all I do is echo what they have already said.

The good part about that is that you don't get mix messages on what to do, which can be confusing.

Stuward, Ironman and Wouter replys cover you questions.

Let me add to what Ironman told you on number 4.

Quote:
Question Number 4- I do Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling, what types of lifts are focused in building say guard muscles and holding strength and holding stamina. By holding arm strength, I mean the strength it takes to pull someone into you when theyre say in your guard and when I say holding stamina, I mean literally the stamina needed to hold and keep someone down in your guard to have better control over them


As Ironman stated, back work is important. That because wrestling is a sport with an emphasis on pulling.

Pulling Muscle Exercises

Strength Exercises: deadlifts, good mornings, bent over rows, dumbelle rows, etc.

Power Exercises: Olympic Lift movements such as power cleans, power snatches, and high pulls, etc.

Holding Exercises

Holding exercise fall into the catatory of isometrics, pulling or pushing agains an immovable object.

Holding strength is developed with short isometric actions of around 6 seconds per isometric action.

Holding stamina is developed with long isometric actions of 30 seconds or longer.

As example, let say you doing a bench press pushing against pins in a power rack, illustrated in Thibaudeau's article below.

Strength Traning Exercise

Push against pin for 6 second and stop. That is one set of the exercise.

Stamina Training

Push against the pin for 30 seconds or longer. That is one set.

Thibaudeau's "Sticking Point Therapy" article provide you with some good information on isometrics. (Wouter provided you with a good ab article by Thibaudeau)
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... nt_therapy

Kenny Croxdale


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:10 am 
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lots of good advice here, the only thing I'll add is that I have no idea why Poly would tell you not to use whey. Shakes are an easy way to get nutrients in when you need it most. Really, the only time you should definitely use one is after a workout. It aids in recovery and gives your muscles a fast digesting protein that they crave after you've battered them in the weights room. I also drink one for breakfast because more often than not I don't have time in the mornings to cook something. So DEFINITELY have one after a workout, and if you need to have one at other times, then feel free.

Remember though it's just a supplement, so you should also be getting LOADS of protein from the solid food in your diet (eggs, chicken, possum, whatever). Don't think that a shake after a workout is enough, you should be looking to get at least 1g of protein per lb of your bodyweight (so if you weigh 170lbs, get 170 grams of protein at least a day).

hope that helps, and happy lifting!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:16 am 
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oh yeah and one more thing I don't think's been addressed yet: You talk about abs helping your lifts, there's a difference between abs and core. usually when people talk about their abs they mean their six pack. When talking about abs with regard to big lifts like squats and deadlifts, the term 'core' is usually used, although more often than not the terms are used synonymously which isn't really correct.

You can do sit-ups and crunches, cable crunches, whatever and that'll develop your 6-pack (abs) but it won't do much for your core. Your core is actually a whole load of muscles around your midsection responsible for holding your body up.

Google "planks" and "side planks" and give them a try, you'll get an understanding of what I'm on about.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Talk to your wrestling coach too. Or talk to a few different ones.

I was never going to be Dan Gable, but had some talent for the sport really. Went out late in HS, and did pretty decent with that level of competition. Got a recruiting letter from an Ivy (which I did not have the grades to get into, but still, kind of cool.) And I tried walking onto my (top 10) college team, but got cut. :sad:

I think a programmed, calm, long-term, lifting plan might really help you out. If I had a time-machine, would go back and listen to my HS coach more and have done the offseason lifting, he recommended...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:24 am 
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I'll cover a few of these. I do MMA and I lift, so I have some personal experience with a few of these.

Immortal wrote:
OK Question Number 1- is it important to work out your abs? by that I mean, since there is no such thing as spot reduction, what can working out abs do?


For a BJJ/wrestler, yes. Getting them stronger and more resistant to flexion/extension/rotation will help a lot. This doesn't have to mean a lot of crunches, though. But things like Russian twists and planks will help a lot. So will Turkish get-ups. Some people will say you don't need extra ab work, but in my experience, people who do grappling really need it. Ab strength and ab endurance plays directly into mat performance.

Immortal wrote:
Question Number 4- I do Jiu Jitsu and Wrestling, what types of lifts are focused in building say guard muscles and holding strength and holding stamina.


Pretty much getting stronger - both maximal strength (how much you can lift once) and strength-endurance (ability to lift more than once) - will help you here. It's not the type of lifts, it's the range. You would probably benefit from a mix of low-rep work (1-5 rep range) and some higher-rep range work (10-15+ reps) or even very high rep work (20+ reps) to build up some stamina too.

Immortal wrote:
Question Number 5 - Can you work out more than once a day? Sometimes during a lifting day I got a jits class or a competition class, should I not lift on those days? And also can you work small muscle groups outside of the weight room after you lift like abs without reaching overtraining?


For the first question, yes, you can. Just decide which is more important for that day. Lift heavy, go light on the mat, or lift light, and go hard on the mats. Personally, I find I do better if I only do technique work at MMA class when I lift the same day.

For the second, you can, but generally, it's better to get some rest. I lift 2x a week and do MMA 3x a week, or vice-versa, and my biggest problem is finding enough time to rest, not being too weak from not lifting enough.

Immortal wrote:
Last Question - Can anyone point me to a good diet that helps build muscle, but lets you stay at the same weight or even lose weight?


Look into Carb Cycling - there is a sticky in the diet sub-forum.

You can also check out the Grappler's Guide to Sport Nutrition. Here is a review I did on my blog:
http://strength-basics.blogspot.com/201 ... ports.html

It's very useful if you're a grappler. It even has sensible weight cutting strategies based on how far out you weigh in.

Hope that helps,

Peter


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