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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:59 pm 
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This question is geared more to the trainers, but any thoughts are welcome. For your average client, when and how to you incorporate steady state cardio? Obviously for swimmers, long distance runners, morbidly obese, cardiac rehab, etc., there is a need for it. But for your average client, what part does it play in their program?

The second question is how do you convice the novice/average client that steady state cardio is not the best way to reach their goals (normally) and that HIIT is better? You have years of programming about having to walk/run in order to lose weight that you have to fight against. What information is provided and how is that information is presented?

Last question (for now) how do you introduce HIIT and build the program up?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:13 pm 
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Hoosegows Gym?

Hoosegow's House of Hard Hammering?

Hoose's Performance Salon?

Alex's Iron Works?

Texas Physique Center?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:55 pm 
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hoosegow wrote:
This question is geared more to the trainers, but any thoughts are welcome. For your average client, when and how to you incorporate steady state cardio? Obviously for swimmers, long distance runners, morbidly obese, cardiac rehab, etc., there is a need for it. But for your average client, what part does it play in their program?


If the client isn't an endurance athlete, there is little to be gained by having him/her spend more than two hours each week doing cardio. If the client does walking as his/her method of cardio, then doing more than two hours is OK.

A Lance Armstrong or a Michael Phelps needs an enormous cardio base to participate in their respective sports at such a high level, but they aren't typical clients.

hoosegow wrote:
The second question is how do you convice the novice/average client that steady state cardio is not the best way to reach their goals (normally) and that HIIT is better? You have years of programming about having to walk/run in order to lose weight that you have to fight against. What information is provided and how is that information is presented?


There is a personal trainer who used to work at my club that had a cult following among women members for his ability to get them in shape. He used weights and interval cardio training to do it. His success with the members led to word of mouth recommendations, that led to more clients. But he told me once that it was hard to get cardio queens to drop the hour long treadmill sessions and pick up weights.

Men are less likely to be cardio fixated, but they are more likely to blow off dietary changes if those changes are needed.

You'll have to build a track record for getting people in shape. No doubt it will take some time. But once you have that record, people will be more likely to listen to what you have to say about HIIT cardio (and everything else about training). Good luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:03 pm 
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I look at HIIT vs Steady State this way:

Distance is typically the biggest factor in total calorie burn. HIIT is good for those who don't train legs, but if you train legs it's essentially a strength session - so you have to plan accordingly.

HIIT isn't good when on low carb diets, simply because it's an anaerobic activity and requires glycogen.

Although, I'm not a personal trainer, I research this stuff much more than the ones you'd typically find in most gyms.

Basically I'd break it down like this : If the person likes to eat more carbs, HIIT isn't a bad idea, just have to program it around lower body strength training.

If you're low carbing it, you really need to do more steady state (Or no cardio at all, really, as long as there is a caloric deficit).

I dunno, that's just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:08 pm 
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I'm a normal person and prefer SS cardio. Especially as I'm older and sick of getting injured.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:15 am 
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hoosegow wrote:
For your average client, when and how do you incorporate steady state cardio?


In our sessions, I don't, really. Only in specific circumstances for example a morbidly obese women I've trained got some Steady State Cardio. So, if they're limited in some kind of way which means I need to be extra carefull with progressing them, then we'll do some. However I've hardly every used it and when I have, i've progressed people onto more interesting things.

I encourage my clients to do extra workouts that are pretty much SSC. Aerobic classes etc. Walk more. Stuff like that.

hoosegow wrote:
The second question is how do you cnvice the novice/average client that steady state cardio is not the best way to reach their goals (normally) and that HIIT is better?


I'm in a better position for this because, i'm a trainer and they have come to me because what they're doing is not working, or they're bored with it. They normally want something else anyway. I always ask them if they actually enjoy running/cycling or if they do it because they think it's an optimal way to get in shape. Most (but not all) don't enjoy doing it.

The time thing is a great selling tool. HIIT shouldn't last more than 15 or so minutes. SSC needs to last an eternity. Even if we assume they both got the same results, then SSC is a long way for a short cut. I go on about the metabolic response from doing high intensity training, too.

Really it depends on the person and what they say. I think by now I have an automatic response for everything. I've found that i can get away with being brutally honest if I say it with a smile on my face :grin:

Worth noting that most I see are either clients, who i've already "sold" my ways to, or "leads" who are getting 3 sessions as part of a new membership deal. So, they will get trained by me so they'll get a chance to try what I'm talking about. Most just "get it" after doing a good workout. I've found myself saying that I want them to get the most out of the sessions so, would like to try new things with them instead of standing beside them on a hamster wheel for 45 minutes.

hoosegow wrote:
Last question (for now) how do you introduce HIIT and build the program up?


The main focus of my programs are lifting heavy things. We always finish off with something that "get's you out of breath". I progress people to med ball/free weight/bodyweight circuits, and complexes for this. However when I start intervals I put them on a bike and have them "sprint" fo 20 seconds and "jog" for 40 seconds. If they're particulalry fragile in some kind of way I make the "jog" part longer. I just tell them to repeat until they're done. If they can last more than 15 mins then it's too easy. However, I emphasise that I don't want them to be "sprinting for their lives!", not at first anyway. Just go a little faster. Each time they come in, make the sprints more intense. I just tell them to keep it simple, they're just alternating between slow and fast paces, with the aim of getting really out of breath. After doing it a couple of times people just get it.

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:46 am 
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Sorry if I missed it KPj, as I'm in a hurry this morning, but what do you do about HIIT when clients are low-carbing for fat loss?

I would think lack of glycogen would severely hinder performance in the exercise and possibly induce some gluconeogenesis?

I'm still learning a lot about this, so I don't know the specifics outcomes of HIIT while low carbing, that's why I ask.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:47 am 
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NightFaLL wrote:
I look at HIIT vs Steady State this way:
Basically I'd break it down like this : If the person likes to eat more carbs, HIIT isn't a bad idea, just have to program it around lower body strength training.


That's interesting. I'm a novice getting in shape after a long stint of doing nothing. I like carbs, and I gravitated toward HITT twice a week. I also so SS cardio at the heart rate just above what the machine claims is my "fat burn" zone twice a week.

My motive for HITT were to increase speed so I could eventually burn more calories during a 50 minute SS session, and to budget time. I don't have time to lift weights and do long bouts of SS cardio numerous times a week.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:21 am 
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Please tell me if I understand this correctly, HIIT uses Glycogen but 1 Max Sprint will use ATP?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:55 am 
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ATP is used during HIIT as well. The phosphocreatine system is the fastest way of producing energy so the initial requirement of energy will be from this system.

On a low carb diet i did HIIT. It's horrendous, can't last more than 3 sprints without fatigue being so bad I can't carry on. But I think it's helpful, especially in getting into ketosis after a carb day.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:37 am 
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NightFaLL wrote:
Sorry if I missed it KPj, as I'm in a hurry this morning, but what do you do about HIIT when clients are low-carbing for fat loss?

I would think lack of glycogen would severely hinder performance in the exercise and possibly induce some gluconeogenesis?

I'm still learning a lot about this, so I don't know the specifics outcomes of HIIT while low carbing, that's why I ask.


This depends on how you define "low carb", really. If I had a Bodybuilder, with significants amount of muscle mass and strength, then I would rethink the approach. BB's obviously already get a lot of "high intensity" training and adding in more in any form could easily be over kill, which is why I believe when you see a lot of big guys training logs during a cutting phases, it'll include a lot of walking/SSC.

However, you're average commercial gym client is a completely different ball game. They eat far too many processed carbs, not enough protein, too much crap in general, and don't do very much "at all".

So, I do the approach mentioned above - Lift heavy things and "get out of breath". On top of that I simply try and get them to cut the crap, which in effect cuts the carbs, and increases protein. Really, I'm just taking them off of the typical High Carb kick.

With the first example of the BB, i've never trained anyone like that (for that goal, anyway), so can't speak from experience on that one. I train mostly females for fatloss. I have 2 BB "types" right now but, I train them to bring up their bench, DL, squat, etc. They would most likely know more than me about how to get "freaky ripped", although I'm trying my best to learn as much as I can.

I guess what I'm saying is, for the average client, you don't need to be that specific. I always have my eye on their numbers, though, making sure that they always get better. If they stopped improving in the gym, I would deffinitly re-evaluate the approach.

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:49 am 
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ApolytonGP wrote:
I'm a normal person and prefer SS cardio. Especially as I'm older and sick of getting injured.


A good point.

Not everyone is suited for HIIT, be it due to age or injuries.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:59 am 
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Stephen Johnson wrote:
ApolytonGP wrote:
I'm a normal person and prefer SS cardio. Especially as I'm older and sick of getting injured.


A good point.

Not everyone is suited for HIIT, be it due to age or injuries.


That is why I specifically omitted special needs clients.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:06 pm 
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KPj wrote:
NightFaLL wrote:
Sorry if I missed it KPj, as I'm in a hurry this morning, but what do you do about HIIT when clients are low-carbing for fat loss?

I would think lack of glycogen would severely hinder performance in the exercise and possibly induce some gluconeogenesis?

I'm still learning a lot about this, so I don't know the specifics outcomes of HIIT while low carbing, that's why I ask.


This depends on how you define "low carb", really. If I had a Bodybuilder, with significants amount of muscle mass and strength, then I would rethink the approach. BB's obviously already get a lot of "high intensity" training and adding in more in any form could easily be over kill, which is why I believe when you see a lot of big guys training logs during a cutting phases, it'll include a lot of walking/SSC.

However, you're average commercial gym client is a completely different ball game. They eat far too many processed carbs, not enough protein, too much crap in general, and don't do very much "at all".

So, I do the approach mentioned above - Lift heavy things and "get out of breath". On top of that I simply try and get them to cut the crap, which in effect cuts the carbs, and increases protein. Really, I'm just taking them off of the typical High Carb kick.

With the first example of the BB, i've never trained anyone like that (for that goal, anyway), so can't speak from experience on that one. I train mostly females for fatloss. I have 2 BB "types" right now but, I train them to bring up their bench, DL, squat, etc. They would most likely know more than me about how to get "freaky ripped", although I'm trying my best to learn as much as I can.

I guess what I'm saying is, for the average client, you don't need to be that specific. I always have my eye on their numbers, though, making sure that they always get better. If they stopped improving in the gym, I would deffinitly re-evaluate the approach.


KPj


Ah yes, I'm bad about thinking about things from my POV, bodybuilding, which is obviously not comparative of the normal population.

I would agree that HIIT for any average person would probably be better - not even so much because of fat loss, but just the overall increase in endurance/strength/power it causes to the untrained.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:52 pm 
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hoosegow wrote:
Stephen Johnson wrote:
ApolytonGP wrote:
I'm a normal person and prefer SS cardio. Especially as I'm older and sick of getting injured.


A good point.

Not everyone is suited for HIIT, be it due to age or injuries.


That is why I specifically omitted special needs clients.


Even if they have no special needs (physical limits), I would make sure they have a decent current level of fitness and that you feel good about their mental toughness to not get discouraged from the higher discomfort factor associated with intervals.


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