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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:14 pm 
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KPj wrote:
I don't really think much/any of this will be a counter point as such, probably just 2 different roads to the same destination.


I think so too. Really, I use step ups because they're technically simple, easily expose ankle/hip/knee issues, get a training effect quickly, and have minimal deceleration issues like lunges (even static lunges) do. If I was running a gym and KPj showed up and squatted 60-year old clients, I'd have no issue with it. He's got sound reasoning and a plan. My plan just starts with single leg because everybody steps.

And yeah, even the 60-year old clients push the Prowler. They may walk an empty Econo Prowler for short distances, high handles only, but they use it. That exposes a lot of bent wrist pushing, flexion when confronting a load, ankle/hip/knee mobility/stability problems, etc. and get a training effect at the same time. Easy to scale, too - more yardage, more weight, etc.

And might I add in a recommendation for barbell pushups? You can scale them to anyone, they don't have the wall in the way like wall pushups, they teach pulling the bar in/scapular retraction well, and no one has an idea locked in their head about how to do one. Plus they are very easy to progress, one power rack peg at a time.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Jungledoc wrote:
Gosh, Peter. Keep going. Or just write a book. I expect that by about chapter 3 you'll be at my level of training. That's great stuff.


Just saw this. Thanks. But really, I'm stealing all this knowledge from my boss. I knew jack about training older folks until I started working with him. He's the one who should be writing the book. Maybe in a few years I'll have enough grounding to do it.

But it's nothing I came up with on my own.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:01 pm 
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A couple of reactions.

First, 60 isn't all that old. Many 60 year olds won't have much in the way of special considerations. Other than scaling carefully, and keeping the volume of training relatively low, you wouldn't train them much differently than other adult beginners. This is coming from a defensive 57-year old.

But scaling things up a bit (I'll think about a relatively frail 70 year old) many people who are insecure on stairs still can get up from a chair fairly well. Steps become an issue before standing from a chair does. Then too, balance is a bigger issue in single-leg exercises than bilateral. I'd offer myself as support for that. I can back squat without looking like about to topple over, but I'm shaky at times on lunges and split squats. So I'd think that if someone can do single-leg exercises, you're golden. But there will be a group who can still squat who can't do single-leg yet, at least not well. So in terms of progression, I'd think squat first, add single-leg when you can.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:29 pm 
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True, Doc. But it's the nature of the gym that I see more injured/physically limited clients. We get a number of referrals from physical therapists and from clients with similar goals. So I'm more lenient on the "you must (fill in the blank)" or "everyone must be able to (fill in the blank)." At least half of my clients have some kind of limitation that makes that less applicable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:33 pm 
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pdellorto wrote:
And might I add in a recommendation for barbell pushups? You can scale them to anyone, they don't have the wall in the way like wall pushups, they teach pulling the bar in/scapular retraction well, and no one has an idea locked in their head about how to do one. Plus they are very easy to progress, one power rack peg at a time.


Ah, good idea for me. I need work on proper form for pushups. Would this be good for that?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
Ah, good idea for me. I need work on proper form for pushups. Would this be good for that?


Couldn't hurt, especially if your problems are core stability or the pushing strength itself.

This blog post could help, too - you and the OP if the 60-year old novice in question wants to crank out some pushups:

http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blo ... r-push-up/


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:36 am 
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pdellorto wrote:

Couldn't hurt, especially if your problems are core stability or the pushing strength itself.


I have trouble with pushing strength while keeping the elbows in.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:01 am 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
pdellorto wrote:

Couldn't hurt, especially if your problems are core stability or the pushing strength itself.


I have trouble with pushing strength while keeping the elbows in.


Work on your lats. They hold your elbows in. Also work your triceps more.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:42 am 
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stuward wrote:
Oscar_Actuary wrote:
pdellorto wrote:

Couldn't hurt, especially if your problems are core stability or the pushing strength itself.


I have trouble with pushing strength while keeping the elbows in.


Work on your lats. They hold your elbows in. Also work your triceps more.

I learn something again, thanks! Makes sense too since I'm not close to being able to do a pull up (too fat is also part of that equation). I'm going to be doing negatives (pull ups) and reverse rows, once the cage area is complete. Various presses, but nothing specifc to isolate triceps, although, I'm pretty sure you'd approve of that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Oscar, in your case I'd try barbell pushups. Just find a height you can do them at correctly, elbows tucked to 45 degrees, back tight, pulling the bar in, with a rigid torso. Once you can do about 10 at that height, lower the pins and do them a little lower. Repeat repeatedly and you'll find yourself on the floor in no time.

Personally I set up barbell pushups just like my bench press - same grip, same width, same point on the chest, etc.

I use barbell pushups with all of my clients before I progress them to actual pushups or even dumbbell bench pressing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:41 am 
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Peter,

So it is written, so it will be done.
Adding Barbell Pushups stat!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:22 am 
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pdellorto wrote:
Oscar, in your case I'd try barbell pushups. Just find a height you can do them at correctly, elbows tucked to 45 degrees, back tight, pulling the bar in, with a rigid torso. Once you can do about 10 at that height, lower the pins and do them a little lower. Repeat repeatedly and you'll find yourself on the floor in no time.

Personally I set up barbell pushups just like my bench press - same grip, same width, same point on the chest, etc.

I use barbell pushups with all of my clients before I progress them to actual pushups or even dumbbell bench pressing.


Peter,

For new clients, what is the average starting position for your Barbell Pushups? AKA: Body at 45^, 30^?? Bar height in relation to trainee's height might be a better way to define this.

Barbell Pushups were on my list of items to try with her even before you mentioned them. Unfortunately, I haven't had my Mom over yet, but have had my wife doing my Complex circuit in the house with me. I've had her doing pushups against the counter, because pushups against a chair seat were too difficult.

Cliff


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:22 am 
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I start everyone above 45 degrees so I can easily coach the form - pull to the nipple line, elbows tucked back to 45 degrees, wrists straight, body straight, etc. - and then I rapidly work them down. As soon as I find the height where they can't sustain the proper form, I regress them back up a peg or two and work from there.

For progress, I add reps at a given height and/or lower the pegs. Sometimes both. I have one client (coincidentally she's also 60) who does 3 sets of 15 on one workout day at a higher peg, then 3 sets of 8 at a lower peg. The next workout at 3 x 15 I move the final set down a peg, and the same for 3 x 8, and each workout I move one or two more sets. Slow and steady progression on the way down to a fully prone pushup. For a younger trainee I might advance it faster, but for an older client with injury issues I don't see a reason to rush.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:07 am 
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I almost forgot to ask - can you update this thread as you train her? If not a running commentary, just lessons learned from doing so would be awesome.

I think a lot of people - not just me - learned a lot from KPj's great thread about training his sister.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:23 am 
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pdellorto wrote:
I almost forgot to ask - can you update this thread as you train her? If not a running commentary, just lessons learned from doing so would be awesome.

I think a lot of people - not just me - learned a lot from KPj's great thread about training his sister.


Yes, I will gladly update as I go. That's assuming I even get off the ground on the training.

Cliff


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