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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:17 pm 
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n00b
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Hi this is my first time following a powerlifting routine, I've been training bodybuilding style for a few years, sorry if this is the wrong board.

I'm trying to follow the sample westside routine from this site.

For the maximum effort day you're supposed to do 9-12 sets of your big lift at 3 reps building up to 3 1-rep sets above 90% of your 1rm.

So my question is: When starting this routine you need a pretty good idea of your 1rm to begin with.

Assuming A: you calculate all your weights for the 9 sets, you lift them all successfully, what is your progression for next week? Your 1rm should be going up, but it's not practical to keep testing it every week. if you are stronger in week 2, what figures are you using for your 1rm to structure your 9-12 sets for that day?
For example. Week 1 I know my 1rm. I know how much to put on the bar to do a 1 rep set at 97% 1rm. By week 2,3,4 I can't keep using the same numbers as there would be no progression. Assuming I'm getting stronger how do I know what 97% 1rm is at this point?

B: You have a bad day and fail 1 or more of your 1 rep sets. What's the options for next week?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:24 am 
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I've changed your rights so you can post links. It would be easier to give advice if you provide a link to the program you're asking about.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:02 pm 
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It still gives me an error when I try to post the link...


But like I said, it's from this site, "exrx westside powerlifting template."
If you search the part in quotations its the first hit on google.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:47 am 
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http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Powe ... tside.html

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:12 am 
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I think the problem is that out of the 4 programs listed, you chose the most advanced. Start with the linear programming one (or a beginner program from the list in our stickies) and then the 5-3-1. Those should last for a year or so. Westside is more a powerlifting specialty program that you could go to next. The Variable Resistance program looks like a peaking program for pre-contest.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:29 pm 
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stuward wrote:
I think the problem is that out of the 4 programs listed, you chose the most advanced. Start with the linear programming one (or a beginner program from the list in our stickies) and then the 5-3-1. Those should last for a year or so. Westside is more a powerlifting specialty program that you could go to next. The Variable Resistance program looks like a peaking program for pre-contest.


Thanks I was beginning to realize this. After 2 weeks my body feels completely shot on this routine, I'm definitely not ready for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:26 am 
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Would you tell us your age, height and weight and your (calc.) 1RM in Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press and Press?

And perhaps a bit about your training until now? It would help to recommend an alternative...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:50 pm 
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The Westside programs are more for geared lifters. For raw lifters something like 5/3/1 or a classical powerlifting routine works better.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Crow wrote:
Would you tell us your age, height and weight and your (calc.) 1RM in Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press and Press?

And perhaps a bit about your training until now? It would help to recommend an alternative...


I'm 32, 6'0, 195lb BF about 12-14%
1rm bench - 265
deadlift - 345
squat - 270

My squat sucks. Like I said I've been training bodybuilding style, I'm not particularly strong, but I have a good commitment level and diet and I like to train frequently. I usually train 4 or 5 days a week, before I started this routine I was doing a chest/back/shoulders/legs 4 day split. I never was a guy to do a lot of isolation or drop sets, I usually stick to compound exercises in the 8-12 rep range usually workout for 1 hour, and maybe 2 or 3 cardio sessions a week. I have been guilty of neglecting legs.

I was thinking of doing an undulating periodization, 3 days a week of big 3 lifts at varying intensity + 1 day accessories. I like the idea because I get to do each lift 3 times a week. And that gives me more chance to work on my technique.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:19 am 
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So you trained mostly (exclusively?) in the 8-12 rep-range? No wonder you got problems "just jumping into" westside...

You could also just change your set/rep scheme without really doing "another program". Like doing 3x8 and when you can`t put more weight on the bar change to 5x5, then 5x3 and back to 3x8 (lowering weight between the changes as needed and then increasing again of course).

When looking at your 1RMs at the table here about the strength standards (just to get a rough estimation):
1rm bench - 265 -> Intermediate
deadlift - 345 -> Intermediate
squat - 270 -> between Novice and Intermediate

So a simple "beginners routine", where you are supposed to add weight to the bar each training-session like "Starting Strength" or "StrongLifts 5x5" is probably not appropiate.

Depending on how often you want to train... Fullbody-programms like Madcow 5x5 or Texas Method (3days/week) would be an option. But also an upper/lower split (4days/week) like Canditos linear program or 5/3/1 are good options. For more sessions/week you could also look at Canditos 6-week strength program (Canditos programs are availiable on his homepage).

If you like to train in rather short sessions, I think 5/3/1 would be the best option and it allows to change templates to emphasize certain aspects in training... like using the "Boring but Big"-Template for Hypertrophy, the "Triumvirate" for a little more variance and so on... you can also implement some kind of blockperiodization with 5/3/1 using the different options in the right sequence. Conditioning work is also a part of it...

Another Option could be "The Juggernaut Method"...

For an overview of the many, many possibilities you could read a bit here:
http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/powerlifting-programs/

These reviews are at least good for an overview of the (mentioned) programs (the reviews are geared strictly to powerlifting).


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:53 am 
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Crow wrote:
So you trained mostly (exclusively?) in the 8-12 rep-range? No wonder you got problems "just jumping into" westside...


I did 5x5 last year for a few months but yeah I usually go back to the higher rep ranges. Thanks for all the pointers, I'll check out the routines you mentioned.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:24 pm 
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ephs wrote:
The Westside programs are more for geared lifters. For raw lifters something like 5/3/1 or a classical powerlifting routine works better.


Westside

Westside does focus on the geared lifter.

A lot of auxiliary work involves partial movement to finish the top part of the lift.

That because the squat suits and bench shirt increase the load you can drive out of the hole in a squat and off the chest in the bench press.

However, it can and should be utilized by Raw Lifters, as well.

Raw Lifter

The hardest part for raw lifter is in the first third of the movement in coming out of the hole in the squat and off the chest in the deadlift.

Thus, strength need to be developed at the bottom of the squat and bench press.

Pause Reps

Performing Paused Squats and Pausing the Bar on the chest in the Bench Press with reps with heavy load
is one of the keys.

The pause need to be 4 second or longer. This kills the stretch reflex and means strength is required to drive the weight up.

Plyometric Squat and Bench Training

However, performing squats and the bench press with a recoil develop the stretch reflex.

The stretch reflex is like loading a spring by pushing down on it. Once the spring is released, it recoils up with more force.

The same applies with the squat and bench press. That why you squat more with a slight bounce out of the hole in a squat and bench more with a touch and go.

Competition Powerlifting Bench Press

In the competition bench press, the bar must be paused on the chest.

Research shows that the stretch reflex is retained for up to approximately 4 seconds.

However, it dissipates quickly. Fifty percent of the stretch reflex dissolves in one second.

Thus, the longer it sit (on your chest), the heavier it gets.

With that said, the press signal is less than 4 seconds. So, raw lifter need to train the stretch reflex to maximize their bench.

Classic Powerlifting Routine

The classic powerlifting routines is not the optimal method.

The focus is on performing repetition with the squat, bench press and deadlift.

The problem with that method is that once fatigue set in, technique deteriorates.

You end up "hard wiring" bad technique into your "mother board".

Pole Vaulting For Reps

The majority of sports use resistance training as a means of increasing strength for their sport.

For some odd reason, powerlifter use the specific sports movement to develop strength in the squat, bench press and deadlift.

It the only sport that does that.

Taking A Page From Other Sports

Research show that skill development is best accomplished in lifting by performing the movement with load of near max, 85% plus for single repetitions.

In performing heavy singles for technique development, once your form begins to falter, STOP! Continuing with bad form develops bad form.

Strength development for the squat, bench press and deadlift are best accomplished by employing movement that are similar in nature to the competition lifts.

Squat Example

1) Zercher Squats

2) High Bar Squats

3) Safety Bar Squats

4) Front Squats

5) Etc.

Maxing Out

To maximize strength, these type of auxiliary exercise need to be pushed to failure at some point (not during every workout).

That means on the final rep, it doesn't matter how ugly the lift is...Push/Pull it up or die trying!

Recycling

Once you have pushed a movement to that limit, drop it from your program for a few months and use another auxiliary exercise that is similar.

Poster Children

The poster children for this type of training are Olympic Lifters.

The foundation on Westside methods are build on the methods of Olympic Lifters.

Summary

1) Raw Lifter need to focus on building strength first.

2) Raw Lifter also need to include power movements.

3) Build strength with auxiliary movement.

4) Develop technique with heavy singles. 85% plus X 1 Repetition.

5) Once technique falter with heavy singles, STOP!!! This insure you do NOT develop bad technique.

Kenny Croxdale

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