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 Post subject: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Hey guys.
I was thinking abuot trying to do a program with very high volume.
I started reading about volume programs and German Volume training sounded pretty good.

The only problem is choosing how I will do this.
I want to train 4x each week. (Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday)
So I tought about doing a 4 day split.
Oh yeah, I think I would rather do like two exersices 5 sets 10 reps rather than 1 exersice with 10 sets(Example:5 sets af benchpress, Then 5 sets of incline bench)

I'm no expert in weight lifting so please, tell me what you think and what I can fix but I have putted the program up like this:
This isnt a typical German volume training program so I wouldnt call it german volume training, but it is a high volume program tho.

Monday - Quads,calves and abs
5x10 Squats - 90 sec rest
5x10 leg press- 90 sec rest
3x10 leg extensions - 60 sec rest.
10X10 standing cal raises - 60 sec rest.
*My ab routine*
-->Not sure how to work the calfes, Do 3-5 sets or do 10 sets?

Tuesday - Chest and tricep
5x10 Bench press - 90 sec rest
5x10 incline db bench press - 90 sec rest
3x10 incline flies - 60 sec rest
3x10 tricep pushdowns - 60 sec rest

Back&hamstring&bicep
10x10 deadlift - 90 sec rest
5x10 Chins - 90 sec rest
5x10 rows - 90 sec rest
3x10 curls - 60 sec rest
3x10 leg curls - 60 sec rest
-->My deads would not be from the ground. I do put the bar alil higher, feel more confident that way and get better form.

Friday - Shoulders
5x10 military press - 90 sec rest
5x10 arnold press - 90 sec rest
3x10 lat&front raises - 60 sec rest

Is this to much volume for some days and to litle for some days?(Fridays)
Should I move some exersices over to friday?

Would be great if you could help me modify this so I could get the most out of it.
And if you completely disagree with this program, how would you then do it?


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Mini mahouse wrote:
-->Not sure how to work the calfes, Do 3-5 sets or do 10 sets?

If you work them that way you'll injure joints around them. You should do weighted jumping or something. Maybe jump shrug...

If you use light weights you can do that routine, but I think it would be better to do a little bit fewer reps and do them with heavier weights.

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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Well this is suposed to be high volume program with low weight ..

Building it up arond German Volume training, where they do 100 reps for each body part with big compound exersices and then maybe 1 extra isolation exersice for that bodypart for 3 sets ..


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:10 pm 
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Dude, you said you wanted volume, and that is certainly what you have got there, lol.

All in all, I like it. I would do that (with less volume). I like the way you have your lifts set up, I like the rest you have avoiding overlap... Not too shabby, now just try it out, and see how it goes for you.

Some suggestions though:
1) Don't be afraid to swap out your front raises on Friday for rear delt work and more lateral delt work. I feel like you might be getting your front delts enough so that you can avoid having to hit them with front raises and get some extra work for your side and rear delts.

2) Calves are an enigma wrapped in an anomaly. Something I've seen over and over again is heavy ass weight, and hitting them every other day HARD. So, if I didn't have the shin splints I would hit my calves every other day, one day standing and one day seated. Load up heavy as possible while having form integrity and go for it.

3) You might find you need more direct arm work than that. If you do, well, address that once you do, lol.




Stefan 93 wrote:
If you work them that way you'll injure joints around them. You should do weighted jumping or something. Maybe jump shrug...


I just don't see how a calf raise is more likely to cause injury than leaving your feet under load.

I'm about 100% sure you have that backwards.

I would not recommend a jump shrug to anyone unless they have a coach to teach them or they are somewhat athletic in the first place. Your average joe shouldn't be leaving there feet under load.

Quote:
If you use light weights you can do that routine, but I think it would be better to do a little bit fewer reps and do them with heavier weights.



Wouldn't that be 100% goal dependent?


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:29 pm 
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nygmen wrote:
Dude, you said you wanted volume, and that is certainly what you have got there, lol.

All in all, I like it. I would do that (with less volume). I like the way you have your lifts set up, I like the rest you have avoiding overlap... Not too shabby, now just try it out, and see how it goes for you.

Some suggestions though:
1) Don't be afraid to swap out your front raises on Friday for rear delt work and more lateral delt work. I feel like you might be getting your front delts enough so that you can avoid having to hit them with front raises and get some extra work for your side and rear delts.

2) Calves are an enigma wrapped in an anomaly. Something I've seen over and over again is heavy ass weight, and hitting them every other day HARD. So, if I didn't have the shin splints I would hit my calves every other day, one day standing and one day seated. Load up heavy as possible while having form integrity and go for it.

3) You might find you need more direct arm work than that. If you do, well, address that once you do, lol.


1) - Yeah you're right, didnt really think about that.
Any ideas of exersice that I should do instead to work the side and rear delts?

2) - Not really sure what you're saying here.
Are you suggesting that I would hit the calves every other day for low reps heavy weight?
Calves have always been my problem, never really knew how to work them properly.

3) - With chins and rows + 3 sets of curling I think My bicep get enough work.
The tricep also gets plenty of work from all the pressing + 3 sets of direct tricep work.


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Mini mahouse wrote:
Any ideas of exersice that I should do instead to work the side and rear delts?


Raises, cables and DB's. Reverse pec dec.


Quote:

Are you suggesting that I would hit the calves every other day for low reps heavy weight?
Calves have always been my problem, never really knew how to work them properly.



Heavy weights and high reps. ;)

Go as heavy as possible and as hard a possible


Quote:
3) - With chins and rows + 3 sets of curling I think My bicep get enough work.
The tricep also gets plenty of work from all the pressing + 3 sets of direct tricep work.



fair enough, but if it isn't enough (I doubt it is to be honest), just come back and we'll deal with that then.


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:47 pm 
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I don't think you need the military press and the arnold press in the same workout. Get rid of one of them and replace it with something for your rear delts. Also, front raises are redundant with all the pressing you do, remember you work the hell out of those on your chest workout too. You could do something like:

military press
face pulls
Lateral Raises
Rear Delt flies

That would work better than what you are doing now. Also, on your shoulder workout you could sneak in a bit more arm stuff. Do sets of curls or tricep extensions in between sets of raises. Won't affect your strength on the raises and it's a good way of getting a bit extra done.


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Stefan 93 wrote:
Mini mahouse wrote:
-->Not sure how to work the calfes, Do 3-5 sets or do 10 sets?

If you work them that way you'll injure joints around them. You should do weighted jumping or something. Maybe jump shrug...


Stefan,

How is anyone going to "injure joints" performing them that way? How did you come up with this informaiton? That means what is your reference source?


Quote:
If you use light weights you can do that routine, but I think it would be better to do a little bit fewer reps and do them with heavier weights
.

Soleus

The Soleus muscle a slow twitch muscle. Thus, the Soleus responss better to high repetition sets, 20 plus reps with lighter loads.

The Soleus is worked best in a seated calf raise.

Gastrocnemius is a fast twich muscle. It is best developed with heavy loads, 8-12 reps.

The Gastoc is worked brest in a standing position.

Kenny Croxdale

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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:06 am 
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Here, you can find more on Internet.
Kenny, that second part is about everything, not just calves.

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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:02 am 
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Stefan, that aricle is about jumping. If you want to get better at jumping, you need to jump. The other point of that article was that building muscle mass for the sake of building muscle mass could reduce athletic performance. Well, sure it would. It takes more force to move a bigger object. That doesn't mean that it's not appropriate training for someone that wants bigger calves.

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Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:02 pm 
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So overall you guys like this program?
Based on that it's suposed to be high volume program.

Nothing you want to point out other than what has already been pointed out?
Doing my first workout to night.


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:06 am 
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Mini mahouse wrote:
So overall you guys like this program?
Based on that it's suposed to be high volume program.

Nothing you want to point out other than what has already been pointed out?
Doing my first workout to night.


i like it apart from the shoulder day, i know I'm repeating myself here but you really don't need both presses


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:00 am 
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robertscott wrote:
Mini mahouse wrote:
So overall you guys like this program?
Based on that it's suposed to be high volume program.

Nothing you want to point out other than what has already been pointed out?
Doing my first workout to night.


i like it apart from the shoulder day, i know I'm repeating myself here but you really don't need both presses


is it worse than going 10x10 of one of them? I mean, if it's redundant, whats wrong with splitting it up? And don't the Arnolds hit your lateral delts more? (thats is, before you dislocate your shoulders)
This is a more general question because I see this often. 4x8 on one exercise or 2x8 on two similar movements. Isn't this just personal choice with no real ramifications?


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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:25 am 
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Oscar, you're probably right, if you're going to so 10 sets of a movement, it doesn't matter if it's all one exercise or spilt into 2 or 3. As far as your body is concerned it's the same stimulus. It's the total that matters.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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 Post subject: Re: High Volume Program.
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:29 am 
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Over in T-Nation, TC even wrote an article about splitting these things up into different exercises. The article was German volume training 2000, and didn't look a lot different than what Mini wrote.
tim


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