ExRx.net

Exercise Prescription on the Net
It is currently Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:09 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:04 am 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 12:27 pm
Posts: 257
There is the clean there is the clean and jerk and the hang clean.

I see a lot of NFL athletes doing this. I checked the workouts it really doesn't show what it works or if it builds mass. I know I sound like a complete noob but I'm contemplating adding one of them to my workouts but I need to know where I fit it in.

I'm going nuts in the gym again and I love it I want as much amo for my arsenal as possible.

Anyone prefer one over the other? Have you noticed gains in any supposed muscles they work? If so where would you throw them in? Back day? Shoulders? Legs?

This site is gold I trust within 24 hours I will KNOW where to put that in :) ahaha thanks guys.

John

btw here is a link to my video on face book deadlifting 405 I don't know if you can view it but what the hell worth a try right?

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2238159121292

_________________
"Opportunity does not knock, it presents itself when you beat down the door"

Kyle Chandler


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:29 am 
Offline
Associate Member
Associate Member

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:21 am
Posts: 335
Location: Indonesia
The athletes do them mainly to increase lower body power development which is critical for the start phase of a sprint for example.

As a tool for muscle gain, I think it's not the most suitable one due to the nature of the exercise.

There a lot of clean variations, several of which have been mentioned by you but there's also "power clean". This one is used the most for sports because it emphasizes the power part (because lighter weight is used) and easier to learn because you don't go to maximum depth.

I'm not sure where to put it in your routine. For example, Rippetoe put the power clean in a squat day in Starting Strength (but then again, all day is squat day in that program). Or perhaps you can separate your lower body day into maximum effort and dynamic effort day. Squats go into max effort day and power cleans/cleans/hang cleans/etc. go into dynamic effort day.

BTW looking at your deadlift number, I think you can power clean about 300lbs in no time.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:45 am 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 12:27 pm
Posts: 257
Paperclip wrote:
The athletes do them mainly to increase lower body power development which is critical for the start phase of a sprint for example.

As a tool for muscle gain, I think it's not the most suitable one due to the nature of the exercise.

There a lot of clean variations, several of which have been mentioned by you but there's also "power clean". This one is used the most for sports because it emphasizes the power part (because lighter weight is used) and easier to learn because you don't go to maximum depth.

I'm not sure where to put it in your routine. For example, Rippetoe put the power clean in a squat day in Starting Strength (but then again, all day is squat day in that program). Or perhaps you can separate your lower body day into maximum effort and dynamic effort day. Squats go into max effort day and power cleans/cleans/hang cleans/etc. go into dynamic effort day.

BTW looking at your deadlift number, I think you can power clean about 300lbs in no time.


So it's legs then. I'll start out with power cleans and see how that goes. This might be a very interesting thing. When I started deadlifting that changed my outlook completely. I thought wow this workout is awesome it kicks my ass I love it. My head is not bald but I'm about to be Mr.Clean. haha I thought it was legs traps back and grip and so I guess I was some what right. Testing phase then workout phase... :laughing4:

_________________
"Opportunity does not knock, it presents itself when you beat down the door"

Kyle Chandler


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:06 pm 
Offline
In Memoriam: TimD
In Memoriam: TimD
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:04 am
Posts: 3129
Location: Va Beach, Va
Hi John. Cleans primarily focus on the posterior chain and the upper back/traps in general. As to bulking up, probably not so much in the legs as the range of movement isn't all that there for the quads, but hips, butt, oh yeah. Now, as to if its any good for bulking the upper back/traps, just take a good look at any Olympic lifter. The larger ones have traps that look like brama bulls. For cleans off the floor, I'd schedule them on leg days though. Hang cleans on the other hand, because of the height of the bar starting around mid thigh level, focuses more on jump/shrug of the traps, and will fit in nice with upper body, especially when combined with a press/push press, or jerk variation.
Tim


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:32 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4284
I use Olympic lifts on upper body days, but I do them from a hang. High pulls done from a hang are great for your upper back and shoulders


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:25 pm 
Offline
Associate Member
Associate Member

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:21 am
Posts: 335
Location: Indonesia
CorlessJohnJ wrote:
So it's legs then. I'll start out with power cleans and see how that goes. This might be a very interesting thing. When I started deadlifting that changed my outlook completely. I thought wow this workout is awesome it kicks my ass I love it. My head is not bald but I'm about to be Mr.Clean. haha I thought it was legs traps back and grip and so I guess I was some what right. Testing phase then workout phase... :laughing4:


Yeah just make sure that you receive the bar with your deltoids and not your arms. BTW if I rethink about what I've said, 300lbs in "no time" seems too optimistic lol, but it's certainly achievable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:42 pm 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:38 pm
Posts: 232
Any of the "clean" exercises are explosive in nature and require alot of focus on proper technique to perform so that they 1) produce the desired result and 2) dont injure you. Even if you feel like the weight is really light I would do quite a few with low weight before piling it on.

as to cleaning 300... take your time. I can DL 550 (conventional) and can clean 205 with good technique but I still struggle with power cleans at 225 (I can do it, but it isnt pretty and I wont go higher until it comes easier). My little brother, on the other hand, DLs mid 400s and can clean 315. If you dont have someone there to coach you I'd look up Ripp's videos on Youtube for cleaning.

If you're looking for a progression I would go:

Hang High pull
Hang Clean
Power Clean
Full Clean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:00 pm 
Offline
moderator
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Posts: 7489
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea
Khronos8 wrote:
Hang High pull
Hang Clean
Power Clean
Full Clean

Would someone please review again the definition of these?

_________________
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:14 pm 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Posts: 6324
Location: Halifax, NS
Jungledoc wrote:
Khronos8 wrote:
Hang High pull
Hang Clean
Power Clean
Full Clean

Would someone please review again the definition of these?


The way I understand these:

Hang High Pull - start in the hang position, end in the high pull position, i.e. no catch
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Olympic ... gPull.html
Hang Clean - start in the hang position, end in the catch
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Olympic ... Clean.html
Power clean - from the floor to the catch, thighs stay above parallel
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Olympic ... Clean.html
Full Clean - from the floor to the catch, thighs go below parallel
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/Clean.html

_________________
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:27 pm 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:38 pm
Posts: 232
Hang High Pull: you start with barbell at midthigh, explode up, popping your hips forward. Use the momentum of the pop to allow you to pull the bar up to about shoulder high with your shoulders and upper back. Do not reverse curl the bar. Allow the bar to fall back to mid thigh (do not rack on your delts/clavicle).


Hang Clean: Just like a hang high pull but you rack the bar on your front delts/clavicle.


Power Clean: Consists of two pulls: 1st pull is a deadlift from the floor until the bar is about mid thigh, then explode into the 2nd pull which looks just like a hang clean.

Full Clean: Like a power clean but with a quick dip during the second pull. This results in a lower body position when you rack the bar and you have to front squat it up into final position. Some define a full clean as when you catch the bar in the full front squat position.

I had linked videos from you tube but the site didnt like that. So... What Stuward said :grin:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:50 pm 
Offline
Associate Member
Associate Member

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:21 am
Posts: 335
Location: Indonesia
Wow the main site library is really complete, and the athlete is good too. I wonder where they got her from.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:32 pm 
Offline
moderator
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:11 am
Posts: 7489
Location: Kudjip, Papua New Guinea
Thanks, Stu and K8. Sorry I didn't look those up myself--for some reason the ExRx library didn't occur to me!

Paperclip wrote:
Wow the main site library is really complete, and the athlete is good too. I wonder where they got her from.

She has tremendous endurance. I watched her do over 20 reps. I went away to another page, and when I came back she was still going strong!

A question about form: in the video of the hang clean, and (to a lesser extent) the Clean the model doesn't reach full depth until after she catches the bar. In the Power Clean, she squats only enough to catch the bar, and then starts driving up again. This latter seems more efficient and effective to me. Am I picking?

_________________
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:34 pm 
Offline
Associate Member
Associate Member

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:21 am
Posts: 335
Location: Indonesia
Jungledoc wrote:

A question about form: in the video of the hang clean, and (to a lesser extent) the Clean the model doesn't reach full depth until after she catches the bar. In the Power Clean, she squats only enough to catch the bar, and then starts driving up again. This latter seems more efficient and effective to me. Am I picking?


Your observation is correct, doc, it's because the weight used for the hang and full clean is too light for her. When the weight gets lighter and lighter, it's become harder to apply the appropriate force against the bar to do the full lifts (in this case a clean). Afterall, the reason a lifter changes direction is because he/she can't pull the bar high enough to shoulder height. In this case, she pulled the relatively light weight too high and received it in a high position but she had to came down to demonstrate the bottom position.

To some extent, doing a fast full snatch with light weight is easier because you always hold the bar so when you pull it too high you can bring/pull it down with you how quick you want it to be. Now the clean is harder to do because you need to release the grip at the moment you change position. If you pull too high and get down to the bottom in full speed, the bar/weight will come down crashing on you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:59 am 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 12:27 pm
Posts: 257
So Here I am checking out all those videos. Once again I looked and cleaning and power cleaning look like they incorporate the legs a lot. The females drop below 90 degrees and then stand up. I see the pulling incorporating a lot of the back.

Here's my main concern. I deadlift with back day although it does supposedly primarily target the glutes. I get that but then feel it also in my traps and my erector spinae.

I squat and do lunges leg curls leg extensions and a few different types of calf raises on legs day. I NEED to get ginormous. I am trying to add everything I can to do as much as I can. Maybe I shouldn't care and just do it.

I believe thats what I will do. I will do as I have in the past learn from experimenting. On an off day next week. I'll try all variations of the clean and see what it feels like. Good topic and great replies guys, you are awesome.

_________________
"Opportunity does not knock, it presents itself when you beat down the door"

Kyle Chandler


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:30 am 
Offline
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Posts: 6324
Location: Halifax, NS
John, cleans,etc are great whole body warmups. Do them right after your dynamic warmup and go right into you heavy stuff after. Its a lot of fun if you can do them in a place where no one is likely to walk behind you.

_________________
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group