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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:01 pm 
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I have been doing the SL 5x5 now since April. I am a lot stronger and feel better. I would however like to loose a little bit of fat. Now before you say anything, no I don't think I am overly fat but I hide what I have quite well. I don't want to be obsessed with it but I just want to fit a bit better in the jeans I wore several years ago. As I get older it seems I tweak up a pound or so every year and on a small frame a few pounds makes a big difference.

Is there a way to loose some fat (5-6 lbs) in a good way without compromising my workouts too much? I would love to accomplish this goal with using weights rather than running or a treadmill.

Diana

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:13 pm 
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You could add a metabolic workout after your strength workout without it affecting your recovery too much. TimD's posted on complexes. Anything that gets your heart beat elevated will work. Sprints, sled drags/pushes will also work. I like farmers walks. About 20 minutes total where you get to the point that you're gasping for air a few times. Just gradually work into your uncomfortable zone.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Quote:
TimD's posted on complexes
Is that what it is called when you do lifting and add some other stuff to the end?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:40 pm 
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No, it's "An exaggerated or obsessive concern or fear"

or a group of apartments.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:44 pm 
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It's a group of exercises you do with the same weight without putting the bar down between exercises. You can do it with barbells, dumbells or kettlebells. I think Oscar has a different kind of complex.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3818

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:10 pm 
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Hi reps, low rest. So, you could do your stronglifts squat workout, then at the end drop the weight right down (like to 50% of your max, maybe even slightly lower. You'll need a session or two to find the sweet spot most likely), then do five sets of ten with a minute and a half rest between sets. That's a minute and a half EXACTLY by the way. Not a minute forty, not a minute thirty one, but a minute and a half. You have to be strict.

It's a weight training workout, and you should look to add weight in future workouts, but the main point is getting your sweat on. For some reason timed rest periods don't get anywhere near as much love as they deserve. The new stimulus will probably add a bit of muscle too. Another way you can ramp up the intensity is to decrease the rest times.

The only limit is your imagination. I've done 10 sets of 10 on squats with a minute rest between sets, and it really works. 8 sets of 8 works well too. In fact, T-Nation just did an article about legendary bodybuilding coach Vince Gironda who used to prescribe 8x8 with 30 seconds rest between sets as a way of getting his athletes to drop bodyfat. It really works, and while I wouldn't recommed throwing yourself into the deep end with the 8x8, 30s rest straight away, the principle is the same.

Sled drags and things like that are all well and good but you need a lot of space and a lot of equipment which you won't necessarily have.

And before you say you're worried about it affecting your recovery - don't worry! Yes, the first couple of times you do it you'll be sore as hell and that'll interfere with your strength workouts, but your body has an amazing adaptive capacity, don't be scared to push the envelope. A couple of weeks of it and the soreness'll be a thing of the past, and you'll be in the best shape of your life.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:49 pm 
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I really, really like complexes. When I tried to follow the links from Stuwards post above (Alwyn Cosgrove's) they were broken. So I went into my 2010 spreadsheet and grabbed all the complexes I had in there. The idea is to use very low weight, something you can easily move around for the most difficult part of the complex. Then put that weight on the bar (or use that weight dumbell) and do all the exercises in the complex without putting the weight down. Rest for a defined period (for example, start with two minutes) then repeat. Increase intensity by adding sets and cutting down the rest period. Note: all of these can be done with whatever weight you want, empty bar, one of the foam covered weight bars, a broom handle even. Do NOT even try to push the weight on these. I am currently doing MMA #1 with 85lbs and it kicks my butt (but I've gotten down to 60 second rest periods and 5 sets).

I've tried to provide proper attribution where I can, but, for "the bear" for example, I dont know who came up with it.

Unknown, hybrid complex (This one is a little different, you do one of each exercise to make 1 rep, then repeat the cycle for how every many reps you want. Each movement flows into the next.)
"the bear" 5-10 (reps) x5 (sets)
power clean
front squat
push press
back squat
push press

Allwyn Gosgrove: perform each activity for 6 reps per set. Do 4 sets, increase weight next time if too easy (or decrease rest time)
Complex A
Dead lift
high pull
squat clean
push press
reverse lunge


Complex B
Romanian DL
Hang clean + squat + press
reverse lunge

Complex C
BO row
Hang Clean
Front squat+push press
Jump squat
good morning


MMA Misery #1
deadlift
rom deadlift
BO row
power clean
front squat
Push Press
Back squat
good morning


MMA misery #2
snatch grip deadlift
Snatch pull
upright row
power snatch
reverse lunge
push jerk
jump squat



Unknown Author but scales GREAT!!
start with bar, go as far as you can (sorry about the formatting on this one, couldnt get the numbers to line up correctly!)

progressions bar 75 95 115 125 135 145 155 165
hang clean and press 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 3 2
back squat 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 3 2
reverse lunge 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 3 2
BO Row 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 3 2
Romanian Dead lift 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 3 2
shrugs 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 3 2



Chad Waterbury: "blood on the barbell" complex; Do Bloody barbell then rest 2 minutes, Do Bloody dumbell then rest 2 minutes, Reduce weight 20% then repeat Bloody barbell, rest 3 minutes. Reduce weight 20% then repeat bloody dumbell one last time

bloody barbell
OH squat 10reps
hang clean 10reps
push press 10reps
BO row 10reps
lunges 10reps
Romanian DL 20 reps
Front squat 10reps
calf raises 30 reps

bloody dumbell
hammer curl 5 reps
alternating shoulder press 10 reps
forward lunge 10reps
BO alternating row 10reps
Reverse Lunge with OP 10reps
Romanian DL 20 reps
calf raise 30 reps


Javorek Complex: perform either 6x4 or in "cycles" i.e.: two complete times through
Upright row
high pull snatch
back squat press
good morning
BO row


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:37 pm 
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I am a little confused so let me state my understanding.

I would add this to the end of the full SL program. So after I am done with my DL or Row depending on the day.

How many complexes am I supposed to do?
Do I change each day I work out. So on workout A I do something different than the end of workout B

I think i need to read a little on complexes but I am supposed to do a lighter weight so it is almost like an aerobic workout (right)? When I worked out at Golds they had a body pump class that looked similar.


One more thing I assume I am to eat the same way I have been and not drop my calorie count.

diana

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squat 150
bench 100
DL 175


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:12 pm 
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This link is quite wordy but it explains the detail.
http://www.istvanjavorek.com/page2.html

I would suggest you start with about 2-3 sets. Once you've done them a few times, you can go to 4-6 sets if you want. The first time I tried it with one of Alwyn Cosgrove's routines, the 3rd set was OK, the 4th knocked me on my butt.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:02 am 
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Really confused. I see long lists of exercises on all of the links quite a change from SL.

Won't I be tired from my SL program if I do this right after?
If I do:
100# Squat
65# BP
55# OH / Push press
60# Row
135# DL

What kind of weight should I do for these? Do I increase the weight or just do the same routine every time?

One other thought is I take a crossfit bootcamp program for 8 weeks to get me started. This is at at different gym than the one I lift at
http://crossfitdurham.com/boot-camps/crossfit-bootcamp-2/

Would TRX work for this?


Quote:
Chad Waterbury: "blood on the barbell" complex; Do Bloody barbell then rest 2 minutes, Do Bloody dumbell then rest 2 minutes, Reduce weight 20% then repeat Bloody barbell, rest 3 minutes. Reduce weight 20% then repeat bloody dumbell one last time

bloody barbell
OH squat 10reps
hang clean 10reps
push press 10reps
BO row 10reps
lunges 10reps
Romanian DL 20 reps
Front squat 10reps
calf raises 30 reps

bloody dumbell
hammer curl 5 reps
alternating shoulder press 10 reps
forward lunge 10reps
BO alternating row 10reps
Reverse Lunge with OP 10reps
Romanian DL 20 reps
calf raise 30 reps

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bench 100
DL 175


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:28 am 
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I'll try and help your confusion. You would do complexes after your stronglifts workout. All a complex is is a sequence of exercises done with no rest between. For example, one I use is:

snatch
clean and press
clean
high pull

So I start with snatches and do 8 reps. Once I've done 8 reps of snatch I go straight to clean and press, no rest, and do 8 reps of that. Once I've completed my 8 reps of clean and press I do 8 reps of cleans, then straight into 8 reps of high pull. At no point between the exercises do you take any rest; your hands never leave the barbell.

You use a weight that's light enough that you can get all your reps of all the exercises. You can increase the weight every set, or decrease the weight every set, or keep it the same, or shorten rest periods. All of these are fine.

I don't see how you could use TRX for a complex, you could maybe do a circuit of rows, push ups, fallouts etc, but I think a barbell is a much better choice. Start with an empty bar and just work up from there.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:53 am 
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What is the significance of using one piece of equipement/barbell/dummbell, rather han grabbing the best weight for each movement?
Is it partly the psycology of having to hold on to the weight the entire time?

Dog, are you Ken's aunt? I sense some relationship here.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:05 am 
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Nothing like typing a reply and having it go off into the clouds :cussing:

Thank you robertscott for the KISS moment!

I think 45# may be a bit too heavy I like to start small and go big. I will start with 30 and see how it goes.

How many sets and how long should this workout last?
2 min rest in between sets?
From what I have been reading it seems as though there are exercises that "go together" in these routines. Can you explain a bit why this is the case?

How often will I need to change the routine?
I am very excited about adding something new!
Can't remember what the rest of the stuff was in the lost post :cussing:

Diana

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bench 100
DL 175


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:11 am 
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Oscar_Actuary wrote:
What is the significance of using one piece of equipement/barbell/dummbell, rather han grabbing the best weight for each movement?
Is it partly the psycology of having to hold on to the weight the entire time?


fluency. Means you can go through the exercises smoothly without rest.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:21 am 
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The_dog_mom wrote:
Nothing like typing a reply and having it go off into the clouds :cussing:

Thank you robertscott for the KISS moment!

I think 45# may be a bit too heavy I like to start small and go big. I will start with 30 and see how it goes.

How many sets and how long should this workout last?
2 min rest in between sets?
From what I have been reading it seems as though there are exercises that "go together" in these routines. Can you explain a bit why this is the case?

How often will I need to change the routine?
I am very excited about adding something new!
Can't remember what the rest of the stuff was in the lost post :cussing:

Diana


If you think 45 will be too heavy, then you are probably right. Every time I've tried a new complex I've always started with a weight that turns out to be too heavy. Like I said before, it'll take you a couple of sets to find the sweet spot.

There's no hard and fast rule as to how many sets you should do. I would think 3 is a good place to start, maybe building up to 5. I see no reason ever to go above 5 sets - just either add weight or decrease your rest times. Remember though that it's not a strength workout, so if you're adding weight I wouldn't use a weight that means you do less than 8 reps. Also remember that you should use a weight that gets you the target reps for your WEAKEST exercise. For example, you are stronger on cleans than you are on snatches, so use a weight that you can get 8 reps of the snatch so that you don't miss reps.

2 minutes rest between sets is fine. You can always decrease it as a method of progression.

As for exercises that go together, well it's pretty intuitive really, you'll see what I mean when you try it. Say for example your first exercise is cleans, so you do 8 reps of cleans. Once that's done the bar is sitting on your shoulders like it would be for a front squat, so you could go straight into 8 reps of front squat. Once you've hit 8 reps the bar is still at your shoulders, so you could do 8 reps of push presses, then on your last rep of push presses you could lower the bar behind your head and go into a set of squats. See what I mean? You just pick exercises that are easy to transition from one into the other. You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly once you start.

the whole workout probably won't take more than ten minutes, if that. Believe me, that is plenty

Regarding changing the routine: it's entirely up to you. You wouldn't have to ever change it if you didn't want, but as you experiment with complexes you'll be constantly tweaking the exercise selection, order, reps, weight, rest times etc so you may well do the same workout every week, or you might never do the same workout twice. It's all entirely up to you.


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