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CorlessJohnJ
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:05 pm 
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H-Bizzle wrote:
Hi everyone, sorry it took me so long to get back. I went in to the gym on friday, went on a weekend trip then returned monday and got laid off from my job. So i've been moving back in with mom & dad and other stuff.

Anyway, I tried the things you guys suggested and found that with the empty bar and with a box set up I could just barely sit back far enough to keep my shins close to vertical and get below parralel. On the way back up if I concentrate and arch my toes up off the floor I can just barely keep the weight on my heels, but it definitely feels like I'm going to fall backward the whole time.

My plan from this point is to add 5 lbs to the bar each workout as normal, and see if eventually I start to feel more stable when warming up with the empty bar. I only missed 2 workouts during the move so i've got 15lbs added back on already and it still feels unbalanced, but it feels good to know I'm pretty close to good form on the squat.

As a side note, it was much easier lifting my stuff was when moving than it was last time. I also helped some other friends move last weekend and I was the strongest one there! Its amazing the difference just a couple months can make.



How wide are your feet when you squat? How is your foot placement? Where do you set the bar when you squat and what is your hand placement on the bar?

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Jungledoc
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Remember that vertical shins are not the be-all and end-all of squatting! The SAFETY issues in squatting are neutral spine, tight "core" and knees aligned with the feet. More vertical shins shifts more emphasis to the posterior chain, but most people are squatting for their quads anyway! I'd encourage you to allow yourself slightly less vertical shins, and see if that doesn't feel more secure.

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H-Bizzle
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:27 pm 
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"How wide are your feet when you squat? How is your foot placement? Where do you set the bar when you squat and what is your hand placement on the bar?"

my feet are shoulder width to slightly wider and i point my toes out by about 20 segrees. My hands are just a palm width wider than shoulder width on the bar.

"Remember that vertical shins are not the be-all and end-all of squatting! The SAFETY issues in squatting are neutral spine, tight "core" and knees aligned with the feet. More vertical shins shifts more emphasis to the posterior chain, but most people are squatting for their quads anyway! I'd encourage you to allow yourself slightly less vertical shins, and see if that doesn't feel more secure."

This is a very good point. I'm wondering if perhaps It would be better to stick with the bodybuilder style squat for now to get more overall strength developement and learn the powerlifting squat further down the road when I'm close to maxing out my linear gains. I definitely do feel more stable when I let my knees travel forward, but I also find it harder to resist leaning forward onto the balls of my feet and the risk of doing a squatmorning is much higher.
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Paperclip
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:33 pm 
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How about try pointing your toes out a bit more? For me, 30-45 degree is about optimal and makes my body as upright as possible (olympic/weightlifting style squat). I'll try to get a video of me squatting if possible for comparison purposes.

BTW here's how I look at the bottom position:
Image
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stuward
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:58 am 
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The style of squatting depends on the effects you're looking for. If you're trying to get better at the O-lifts, Paperclip's stance is best. If you're trying to get better at powerlifting, the stance is quite different. Keep the knees and toes aligned and choose the stance for the effect you want.

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hoosegow
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:15 am 
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That's sick paperclip! If anyone sees me like that, please call 911. I've broke something or something has gone horribly wrong.

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Jungledoc
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:18 am 
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hoosegow wrote:
That's sick paperclip! If anyone sees me like that, please call 911. I've broke something or something has gone horribly wrong.

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

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Paperclip
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:47 am 
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I agree with stu.

hoosegow wrote:
That's sick paperclip! If anyone sees me like that, please call 911. I've broke something or something has gone horribly wrong.


Well, that's still nothing compared to kids squatting ;)
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Wouter
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:32 am 
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http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_thirdworld_squat
relevant article for this thread
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The_dog_mom
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Wouter wrote:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_thirdworld_squat
relevant article for this thread
Great article! Thanks.

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Oscar_Actuary
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:53 pm 
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Paperclip wrote:
I agree with stu.

hoosegow wrote:
That's sick paperclip! If anyone sees me like that, please call 911. I've broke something or something has gone horribly wrong.


Well, that's still nothing compared to kids squatting ;)


seeing as you are being humble I'll refrain
I was going to say something about you having 14" thighs and 7" calves making it a lot easier to fold up like an accordian,; but then you'd probably call me fat and brag about how much more you can snatch than me. So, I"ll be the better man, today.
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Paperclip
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Yeah, actually it's one of the reason why kids' bottom can almost touch the ground while squatting. As for me, I have 23" thighs and 16" calves ;)
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H-Bizzle
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:33 am 
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OMG that article is DEAD ON and it has exercises/stretches ti fix it! I'll be doing these and will update this thread with the results.

thank you!

And to paperclip, your input was also informative. unfortunately my goal is to be a power lifter, not a Olympic lifter
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Oscar_Actuary
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:41 am 
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Paperclip wrote:
Yeah, actually it's one of the reason why kids' bottom can almost touch the ground while squatting. As for me, I have 23" thighs and 16" calves ;)


got me curious, I'm 27" and 17", lean
I'm about 12 - 42% body fat, depending on how big a breakfast I ate.

Back on topic... Glad you foudn a good article. Keep us posted Bizzle
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H-Bizzle
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:02 am 
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Back with an update.

I've been doing the stretch recommended in the t nation article posted above nearly every day, i've forgotten a few times.

At first I couldn't do it without needing to hold myself up, now some parts of the squat in this form are possible for me, including the bottom position. This exercise seems to lend itself toward learning to squat the way paperclip does in the photo above the motion of it also seems to necessitate allowing the knees to track forward over the toes and then back to a near vertical shin position at the bottom of the squat.

I don't know if this is exactly ideal for some one interested in power lifting, but because it is helping me learn to 'live on my heels' I'll take it for now.
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