ExRx.net

After reading Tate's The Vault, I switched to the box squat as my main exercise (5-3-1). I figure he and Westside know a hell of a lot more than I do. I have to admit it is brutal and I am beginning to have a love/hate relationship with it. Then I read an article on EliteFTS.com about a guy switching from box squats to conventional squats and how much it helped.

I guess it goes back to everything works but nothing works forever.

Does anyone know a basic "conversion" for box squats to conventional? Let's say I did box squats with a pause at the bottom for a set of 3 at 400lbs. What would be a good equivalent to conventional? 1.1? 1.2?

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Thanks TimD.

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Thanks TimD.

Thanks Kenny. FWIW, my hips feel much stronger after six weeks of box squats. I'm thinking of switching every other cycle. Does that sound reasonable?

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Thanks TimD.

My best experience of the Box Squat to speak of is getting it up to a double at 340 and 4 weeks later free squatting 400lbs. I had only done some higher rep free squats up until this point to keep the technique (i.e. 3 sets of 8 after working up to doubles on Box Squats).

My training partner got a double 350lbs Box Squat at the same time, but free squatted 375, missing 400.

A client of mine just hit a 320lbs free squat after being stuck at 300lbs then cycling in Box Squats. He got up to 290lbs Box Squat then we switched back. He has some incredible rebound out of the hole so I think forcing him to "muscle" himself out of it really helped. He's only been lifting 11-12 months though, (with a 2 month break) so it's not a great comparison.

I have definitely been guilty of over using the Box Squat only to switch to free squats and practically crumble in the hole. I think it should be used, just not over used.

I believe Matt Z has been doing Box Squats recently so hopefully he'll chime in, too.

KPj

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Thanks TimD

Hoos- I switched to box squats in my 5-3-1 but I still do squats as an accessory on deadlift day, (4 or 5 sets of 8-10 at 60-65%) The squats do feel a lot easier.

Another thing I did was I would start lowering my box a little every wave, started out at parallel and now I'm down ~1 - 1.5 inches.

I could probably squat 340+ regular and maybe 310-315 on a box.

I just lift because I love it, I'm not an athlete per say (and I'm getting old), just train like one (thanks Stu).

Just thought I'd throw that out for ya Tex

might be a stupid question, but what do you guys use for a box?

roberscott- I just made mine using 4x4 for legs and a couple pieces of ply wood. I had some old horse trailer matting that was about 3/4" thick that I cut up some squares and use that for adjustment of the height.

We have these in my gym: http://seriusfitness.com/products/plyo_boxes_bb.jpg
Plywood and 2x4s would probably work just as well.

I must need to work on my stretch reflex because my box squat is almost as high as my free squat. In fact I hit 225 on the box squat first.

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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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Thanks TimD

I built a plywood box that is 14"x16"x18". That way, I adjust the height just by the position of the box. I use if for step-ups, jumps, an arm-rest for 3-point DB rows, or just a stool to sit down on or stand on to hook the punching bag to the ceiling. I have occasionally wished for one a little lower or a little taller, so I may build a couple more some day.

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Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

clever

I don't usually do "me too" posts, but that is so clever I'll probably build one on Saturday.

I use 2 aerobic steps. The steps in my gym have attachments that give you 3 levels, which I refer to as high medium(or just "middle"), and low. This generally gives us as much adjustment as we need. 2 steps at the low level measures 11.5 inches (i'm sad enough to have measured).



My theory/ramblimgs/understanding on it is the following... (open for anyone to pick holes in what I say)

The stretch reflex is an "ability" or a skill. I'm not sure it can be improved directly although I have came across some techniques involving a bounce that apparently improves it directly, I just don't understand this yet. I think your stretch reflex doesn't improve per se, you just get better at using it. Technically increased strength in the muscle should yield a stronger contraction both in general and when the stretch reflex kicks in (which is just a reflexive contraction of the muscle) but, you still need to be efficient at actually using it to be able take advantage.

I tend to think of muscles like elastic bands. Going into a squat, I think about my knees being anchored in place and my hips stretching back like an elastic band being pulled (Like a sling shot, with the hips being the little pouch you place your ammo of choice in), aiming to "snap back" to the starting position. So, i think it's important to "pull" yourself into the squat rather than "lower yourself" down, so you can get maximum snappyness out of the hole. This is also why we should "row" the BB to our chest when we bench.

Once you reach depth, you then have reversal of the bar path. This is something most never give much thought about (and i never until recently), and I think this is key. You want to change direction as fast as possible, almost "violently", if that makes sense. As soon as you have stretched to depth, you instantly and explosively move the opposite way. If you even try this with an empty bar, it can be difficult and really call you out on form/tightness, too.

Technically, the Box Squat trains the opposite. You hit depth and pause, muster up all your might, and blast up. You have an intended break between eccentric and concentric which is the opposite to taking advantage of the stretch reflex. By NOT taking advantage of the stretch reflex, you are just muscling it up, which in turn can make your muscles stronger, which in theory should open up potential for a better stretch reflex. However, the skill still needs to be honed. If you get too used to that break between eccentric and concentric, you'll lose the necessary skill (and mindset) for a quick change in direction when free squatting, and it'll almost feel more difficult because you don't have that Box to sit way back on and pause. Instead you essentially "hover" before blasting up.

You could also say that by taking advantage of the stretch reflex, you get to lift more weight and this will contribute to strength of the muscle, too. I think it probably works both ways. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle and the devil is in the details.

Excuse the rambling, i'm really just thinking out loud, leaving it open for criticism.

KPj

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Thanks TimD

Lately, I've been using box squats for higher rep work (mostly sets of 5), and regular back squats for my heavy, low-rep workouts. The box I've been using is a 12" high plyo box (I measured it).

I hear this all the time and it's very annoying. Momentum is not what helps people get out of the hole when they don't pause. It's elastic energy stored in the tissues and the muscular contraction reflex. The only way momentum could come into this is if our body is absorbing and bouncing back the energy of the momentum from the descent, is all I can figure people might mean.

Momentum is not eliminated when you box squat, because if you explode off the box and stand up very quickly, the body can accrue momentum, which is perfectly fine of course.

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Thanks TimD.