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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:07 pm 
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OK OK.. it does say n00b under my name for a reason y'know.

Sarcasm and disparaging aside, I am here for advice, thats why I decided to post. I have already taken on board feedback about my nutrition and diet, and now I am moulding my training routine. All I did was literally copy and paste the routine template from the main site and chose one exercise for each that I was comfortable with.

Now to some questions... First off, presently I am looking for an intense anaerobic session to lose weight (and over the last 8 weeks I've lost about 7-8kg doing what I'm doing), I just don't feel like I'm going to get that by doing 4 exercises 4 days a week? Secondly, what is wrong with the Smith for benching? I only chose it because I'm not yet comfortable on the bench with free weights.

robert, I really do appreciate you taking the time to draw up a routine, but some of the exercises I'm not totally comfortable with, like RDLs and chin ups, so I've kind of tried to mould my 4 day routine (dropping a lot of exercises) into your proposed workout (upper/lower split). Tell me what you guys think of this? I've dropped some curls LOL (even I'll admit I knew that was too many curls, but like I said I was just literally filling out the routine), and no more than 6 exercises a day. I would do this on a Mon Tue Thu Fri split, so I've got two days rest between upper and lower.


UPPER A

-Chest (General) - Bench Press (Smith)
-Back (General) - DB Bent over row
-Biceps - BB Curl
-Triceps - Pushdown (Cable)
-Deltoid (Side) - DB Lateral Raise


LOWER B

-Quadriceps - BB Squat
-Hamstrings - Lying Leg Curl
-Calves (General) - Standing Calf Raise
-Hip Adductors - Standing Hip Adduction
-Abdominal - Seated crunches


UPPER C

-Deltoid (Front) - BB Military Press
-Back (Lats) - Pulldown
-Brachioradialis - DB Hammer Curl
-Chest (General) - Wide Arm Seated Fly
-Triceps - Bent-Over Triceps Extension (rope)


LOWER D

-Legs (General) - Deadlift
-Quadriceps - Leg Extension/Incline Leg Press
-Hamstrings - Hyperextension
-Calves (General) - Incline Calf Press
-Obliques - Planks
-Hip Adductors - Vertical Leg Raise


I've edited these up a bit, since I posted them. Keep in mind, I'm focusing on gaining experience on actually lifting the weights and performing the exercises correctly and primary goal is losing weight right now. I've just done a ton of reading on 531, and it appeals to me a lot, and I've adjusted this routine to suit 531 (when I begin it).

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Last edited by ozzy on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:28 am 
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there is an annoyingly persistent inverse relationship between the seriousness/competence of the OPs and the clamoring of regulars spewing verbose suggestions
thread after thread
I may have ovestayed here


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:35 am 
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I've edited my routine (again).

I sincerely apologise to anyone that has been frustrated by their experiences with me or this thread..Your help is appreciated!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:54 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
Dub, please tell my quads that next time I over do it on squat day. I agree that RDL is more PC.


RDL is DEFINITELY a PC move. I just think it makes sense to do a PC accessory on squat day, and vice versa


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:04 am 
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ozzy wrote:
OK OK.. it does say n00b under my name for a reason y'know.

Sarcasm and disparaging aside, I am here for advice, thats why I decided to post. I have already taken on board feedback about my nutrition and diet, and now I am moulding my training routine. All I did was literally copy and paste the routine template from the main site and chose one exercise for each that I was comfortable with.


it's the internet man, don't take it so seriously...

ozzy wrote:
Now to some questions... First off, presently I am looking for an intense anaerobic session to lose weight (and over the last 8 weeks I've lost about 7-8kg doing what I'm doing), I just don't feel like I'm going to get that by doing 4 exercises 4 days a week? Secondly, what is wrong with the Smith for benching? I only chose it because I'm not yet comfortable on the bench with free weights.


if you are looking for an intense aerobic session, then sprinting is best. However, if you lift weights with high-ish reps (8 - 12 or so) and keep your rest times reasonable then I guarantee you you'll feel the burn.

as for the smith machine, well, it's better than nothing, but the problem with it is it forces your body to move in the exact way the smith machine does. Free weights let your body use its natural path, which is far easier on your joints. Also, your stabilising muscles don't get worked on the smith which is also a recipe for injury.

ozzy wrote:
robert, I really do appreciate you taking the time to draw up a routine, but some of the exercises I'm not totally comfortable with, like RDLs and chin ups, so I've kind of tried to mould my 4 day routine (dropping a lot of exercises) into your proposed workout (upper/lower split). Tell me what you guys think of this? I've dropped some curls LOL (even I'll admit I knew that was too many curls, but like I said I was just literally filling out the routine), and no more than 6 exercises a day. I would do this on a Mon Tue Thu Fri split, so I've got two days rest between upper and lower.


UPPER A

-Chest (General) - Bench Press (Smith)
-Back (General) - DB Bent over row
-Biceps - BB Curl
-Triceps - Pushdown (Cable)
-Deltoid (Side) - DB Lateral Raise


LOWER B

-Quadriceps - BB Squat
-Hamstrings - Lying Leg Curl
-Calves (General) - Standing Calf Raise
-Hip Adductors - Standing Hip Adduction
-Abdominal - Seated crunches


UPPER C

-Deltoid (Front) - BB Military Press
-Back (Lats) - Pulldown
-Brachioradialis - DB Hammer Curl
-Chest (General) - Wide Arm Seated Fly
-Triceps - Bent-Over Triceps Extension (rope)


LOWER D

-Legs (General) - Deadlift
-Quadriceps - Leg Extension/Incline Leg Press
-Hamstrings - Hyperextension
-Calves (General) - Incline Calf Press
-Obliques - Planks
-Hip Adductors - Vertical Leg Raise


I've edited these up a bit, since I posted them. Keep in mind, I'm focusing on gaining experience on actually lifting the weights and performing the exercises correctly and primary goal is losing weight right now. I've just done a ton of reading on 531, and it appeals to me a lot, and I've adjusted this routine to suit 531 (when I begin it).


this looks miles better than it did, however I think you should seriously consider benching properly. It's really not that scary once you get into it. I would also recommend adding another upper back move on your upper body days. Face pulls would be a great choice.

As for not doing RDLs, that's ok I guess, however they're a better choice than leg curls. Ideally you'd do a move that involves your hamstrings and your glutes (leg curls just use hamstrings). I also don't really see the point in the hip adductor exercise unless you're rehabbing an injury of some sort. I would just scrap that.

If you suck at chins, then yeah, pulldowns are ok. However, building up to doing chins should be a priority.

Lastly, I really do think lunges are a better choice than the leg press.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:52 am 
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Once again robert, thanks a bunch, you've been extremely helpful. The plan is definitely to move to free weight benching, no doubt, but I started off with a training partner so we were free weighting and I had a spotter, but due to changing jobs we can't hit the gym at the same time anymore, so I'm solo. Once I've got the confidence up I'm definitely going to be free weight benching. Chin ups are definitely a goal, but right now, I doubt I could even do 2 reps.

And add in an exercise?? I didn't think I'd hear that LOL! I had incline rows and straight arm lat pulldowns in there, but took them out for fear of being chastised! I guess I'll put them back in, because I really enjoy incline rows.


Right now my plan is to keep my cutting diet and this routine (plus some HIIT cardio) and the early morning walk (which my body really responds to) probably till the end of the month (depending on what my weight gets to). Then I want to start adding mass, and I've literally spent 2-3 hours tonight reading about 531 and Jim Wendler's blog etc. I've never heard of it till tonight (I had no idea what you guys were talking about when mentioning 'accessories'), but reading up on it, it seriously appeals to me, commitment is not a problem, and the 4 day split works for me beautifully (gym is around the corner from my work). I've just ordered the second edition of his book, so looking forward to getting my head around it.

One other thing I'm curious about, my diet when I want to start adding mass, I calculate my maintenance calories at about 2700 approx.. I've done up a draft bulking diet, and I'm at about 4100 calories. Too much? Not enough? Keep in mind I'm 6'4" and when I want to start adding mass I'll be about 88kg/194lbs.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:00 am 
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Quote:
Sarcasm and disparaging aside, I am here for advice, thats why I decided to post. I have already taken on board feedback about my nutrition and diet, and now I am moulding my training routine.

We really mean no harm and no bad feelings. We are here to give you our advice and share our little experiences and knowledge. But on the other hand, if people here don't like something, they'll let it be known. Especially that little punk Oscar.

Quote:
Now to some questions... First off, presently I am looking for an intense anaerobic session to lose weight (and over the last 8 weeks I've lost about 7-8kg doing what I'm doing), I just don't feel like I'm going to get that by doing 4 exercises 4 days a week?

You need to understand the reasons why lifting heavy things causes weight loss. You don't need more than 4 days a week. You would probably lose fat with three also. And 4 exercises is more than enough. Intensity is a bit relative. Feeling the pump and having immovable joints after workout isn't the marker for weight loss. It's way more complicated. You see, it's not important what you lose during your workout, it's about what happens after that. We'll just call it afterburn, caused by elevated levels of metabolism. There's stuff like recovery,muscle building hormones, EPOC and other stuff like citric acid cycles on the process, but the main point is that your body will create energy from your fat cells more efficiently and move more carbs, oxygen and other nutrients to muscles. This elevation can possibly stay high for almost 36 hours. Plus, exercise only doesn't really cause fat loss. Diet is even more important associate on this one. Together they make results. And it takes time. After your starter losses end, the fat and weight loss is a very long and consistent project.

Now, if you still think you want or need more exercise, introduce interval training. Exercises no longer than 15 to 30 minutes (20 minutes being optimal) will get you the results and íntensity you're craving for. Depending on your fitness level, start slowly. Intervals between 10 and 30 seconds are most effective, and rest time between intervals should be 1.5x to 2x longer than your work. Which means anywhere from 15 seconds to 60 seconds. Once again, depends on your condition. There are many interval methods, but this is the basic one. Warm-up slowly, repeat the work-rest pattern for 10 to 20 minutes, and then cooldown if you need it. Simple as that. 2 to 3 times a week. After you're feeling good with intervals, it's recommended to take inclines to the pattern sometimes (hill sprints). Be creative.

Quote:
Some of the exercises I'm not totally comfortable with, like RDLs and chin ups,

Why? You know that 0 or 1 or 5 is a great starting point to work up also? Pulldowns are not the only option for chin-up workout. Says me, the person who last year couldn't pull but 1 to 3 pure chins, and now I'm pulling 10.

EDIT: You made a post just when I was about to post. Consider doing stuff like assisted chins, limited Range of Motion and purely eccentric(slow eccentric) chin-ups to get you started. Also some top holds could help to get you to higher reps.

And robert and Andy missed my point. Quads in squats are overrated. Yes, they are important and one of the many main muscles that work. But a proper squat is working so much through hips, back, glutes and hamstrings that I can't really call it a "quad dominant" movement. Leg presses and Front Squats are way more quad dominant to say a few. Not like I'm wanting to argue, just some sidecomments I made.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:23 am 
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I'll stick to my routine for now, and will go in to the gym next Sunday for some light cardio and will practice a few things like you guys have said, chin ups, RDL, good mornings etc. It's not that I don't want to bring them in, its just that I'm not confident enough to bring them into a routine yet.

What would be a good substitute for the lying leg raise that would work glutes & hams? Keep in mind we don't have a glute-ham apparatus at our gym. I'll sub the leg press for DB lunges.

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Last edited by ozzy on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:36 am 
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Sorry, Ozzy, if I came across as harsh.

Hate the Smith. Stay far from it.

Hate the crunch. Leave it by the Smith.

If you can do 1 chinup, then do 1 chinup! Do a few singles for a couple of weeks, then try 2s. After a couple more weeks, switch to 3s. Before you know it, you'll be hammering out reps. It's a great exercise. Much more cool to feel you body moving through space than to just be stuck there pulling on a handle.

And try RDLs. They are easy (well, depending on loading) and safe. No worries.

Your routine is moving in the right direction. Still too many exercises. I agree with Robert on the adductions. No point. Squats will do what you need.

Programming will be way simpler to you if you think in terms of movements, and not muscles. The goal is to get the muscles to work together to do useful movements.

You don't lose weight in your exercise program. Dub explained the role of exercise very well (he explains everything well; the squat/quads thing is a small exception). You lose weight through diet.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:54 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
...drink only when you are thirsty, and only enough to keep you from being thirsty for a few hours.

- unless you have a recurring kidney stones problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:43 am 
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I had a lift today and did my Upper body bench routine, and decided to just jump into the free weights. Took it pretty easy, but knocked out 4 decent sets. Felt great, and started logging as well! Even took the time to do up a spreadsheet when I got home, so I'll be able to spew out some spiffy graphs to show how weak I am in a months time!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:57 am 
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Be sure to open a log in this area of the forums: viewforum.php?f=3

Log your workouts, people will read your logs and its much easier for people to help out.


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