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Program question
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Author:  Dub [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Program question

Yet again, small changes occur in my training program. And yet again, I want to run my new template through critics.
Alright, my main changes are the following:

1. Introducing the Snatch. Why? Because I want to learn the proper techniques of olympic lifts, cleans come few months after. Hence, lot's of volume on snatches. Plus, I think we need to learn to snatch by next years weightlift/gym course.
2. More volume. How? Through warm-up reps. Since there are many people shouting on volume, I thought I'd bring it to the program by doing more pre work-sets. somewhere along 4 to 6 warm up sets with 3 to 8 reps in them. Total warm-up reps would rise to somewhere near 20-30. What means huge technical improvements from last months 13 warm-up reps. And the accesorial movements will also remain in the volume of 8 to 12 reps.
3. Chin-ups as main movement in place of rows. Because I think I benefit lot more from different forms of pull-ups than barbell rows on max effort work. But rows will remain in assisting moves. There will be different variations, like one-armed DB row, inverted row, and such.
4. Front Squats and RDLs. I tought I would take on front squats because one, I hate them, two, I might suck at them. And I'm putting pressure on quads, since I have more posterior chain work. RDL's will progress to one legged versions as I learn the movement. That's to fix minor imbalances on Deadlift, and to increase my DL.

Anyway, here's the template.

Workout A:
Front Squats
Deadlift
RDL
Box Jumps

Workout B:
Snatch
-
Rear delt work

Workout C:
Bench Press
Dead Bench
Chin-up
Row

Core work twice a week. Main lifts are Front squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Snatch and Chins. I will do 3 to 5 reps, either several sets or building to a heavy one. Depending on how I feel.
My snatch day is missing something. I thought I would put some DB shoulder presses there, but I'm not too sure. I'm convinced about rear delt work, so that's staying in there. I was thinking about Hip thrusts too. Also I'm still thinking wether to choose Dead Bench or Pause presses. I did well with Dead Benching, but I've heard good things about using pauses.
Anyway, this program has pulling and pressing, major lifts and assisting lifts, pretty much all the important muscle groups worked, plus little plyometrics.

Anything to comment on?

Author:  Jungledoc [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

I like your idea for press in the open slot in workout B. You could make them single-arm DB press, if you've done BB press a lot lately.

Author:  robertscott [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

Dub wrote:
pretty much all the important muscle groups worked


you sure about that? Those lateral delts of yours're feeling unloved...

hehe, I'm just messin'.

Looks like a fairly solid strength routine, however it looks a bit like you're doing lower/upper/upper which I think is a little strange. I would put your day A in the middle, so it's upper/lower/upper. Gives your upper body more time to recover.

I would actually do your C day first, then your A, then your B.

As for adding to your snatch day, I would add a pressing accessory - overhead press, inclines, close grip, dumbell press etc - and do it for volume. 5x10 or something similar. This will really help your lagging bench. Then I'd add another row to balance out the extra pressing so your day would look like

snatch (5x5, 8x3 etc)
press accessory (5 x 10, 4 x 12 etc)
row (high reps again, 5x10 or something)
rear delts (3 sets of 10 - 15)

I assume "dead bench" is like a pin press or whatever, where you start with the bar in the bottom position at a dead stop. I personally wouldn't bother with it. It's quite an advanced technique and I don't think you're there yet. I would actually use 5/3/1 percentages and progression for your bench on your C day, and then just use the Boring But Big accessory instead of the pause. That day, if I was designing it would look like this (exercises listed in order):

Bench 5/3/1
Chins
Bench BBB/Row superset

I'm a big fan of pairing presses with rows, but not everyone likes it as much as me. Face pulls would be a welcome addition to this day too. So, I propose your routine to look like this:

Workout A:
Bench 5/3/1
Chins
Bench BBB/Row superset

Workout B:
Front Squats
Deadlift
RDL
Box Jumps

Workout C:
snatch
press accessory
row
rear delts



just my [1 million dollars].02

Author:  Dub [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

robertscott wrote:
just my [1 million dollars].02

You know what Robert? I just might test your ideas out. The 5/3/1 I'll most likely still leave alone, I intend to buy Wendlers book and read/know what I'm doing before executing it. But atleast the boring but big accesory, I've been meaning to test that sooner or later, and I just realised how I suck at push-ups. So yeah, killer volume could be good actually. I'll check how that superset feels, but not too sure about it yet.

Press accesory sounds good, I was thinking that myself too. And we'll see about that split. I'll test how it feels.

Author:  Jungledoc [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

You can use 5/3/1 as a method of progression, even if you aren't doing the complete program.

Author:  Oscar_Actuary [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

Jungledoc wrote:
You can use 5/3/1 as a method of progression, even if you aren't doing the complete program.

ditto the sentiments


also, the actuary in me cant resist noting

U - L - U ~ U - L - L
for all intents and puposes depending on what days of the week you go (assuming you spread it out over 7 days)
They both are UULUULUULUULUUL.... in the long run

Author:  Jungledoc [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

Oscar_Actuary wrote:
UULUULUULUULUUL

How do you pronounce that?

Author:  Dub [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

I think the Snatch day is more like a full body workout than and upper body day. Snatch is a complicated movement with deadlift, squat, hip hinges and something that could be referred as snatching. Now that plus some pressing accesory would make it more upper body, but then again, I had this idea of doing some lower body work like hip thrusts or volume back squats to compensate the upper bodyness. Thus, the split would be more like Lower-Full Body-Upper. Or LFULFULFU if you like that kind of stuff.

Author:  Kenny Croxdale [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

Dub wrote:
2. More volume. How? Through warm-up reps. Since there are many people shouting on volume, I thought I'd bring it to the program by doing more pre work-sets. somewhere along 4 to 6 warm up sets with 3 to 8 reps in them. Total warm-up reps would rise to somewhere near 20-30.


Warm Ups NOT Workouts

The role of a warm up is to perform minimal amount of work to get to your top set.

With that said, I don't see much point in performing 20-30 reps.


Quote:
Workout A:
Front Squats
Deadlift
RDL
Box Jumps


Speed and/or Power First

Research shows that speed and/or power movements are more effectively trained when place at the beginning of a program.

Thus, Box Jumps need to be first in your program.

Complex Training

An exception to that rule is complex training.

This method Super Sets a strength movement with a speed and/or power movement.

Performing a strength movement first elicits a greater training response. In other words, more speed and power are poduced.


Quote:
Workout B:
Snatch
-
Rear delt work

My snatch day is missing something.


Hip Drive

One of the keys to the snatch is hip drive.

Exercises

1) Kettlebell Swings

2) Hungarian Core Blaster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9JKyWhVGl4

Home Made For $20
http://www.davedraper.com/pmwiki/pmwiki ... i.T-Handle

3) American Deadlift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAVMj6GJwfY

4) Standing Broad Jumps (Bodyweigh or with light dumbbells)
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... jump_reset

Quote:
Workout C:
Bench Press
Dead Bench
Chin-up
Row


Receiprical Inhibition

Antagonist muscles act as a "braking" device for agonist muscles.

That means that one of the limiting factors in how much force you produce in a bench press is limited by the lats and biceps "riding the brakes".

The same occurs when performing a pullups and rows with the pecs and triceps.

Robert's "Pairing"

Performing a pullup or row, relaxes the lats and biceps allowing you to exert more force in the bench press, any pushing movement.

Performing a bench press, relaxes the pecs and triceps allowing you to exert more force in the pullup and row.

Thus, Robert's "Pairing" is an effective tool in developing strength. "Pairing" also has some other benefits.

Kenny Croxdale

Author:  JasonJones [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Program question

More volume and Olympic lifts. Why not just one? If you want to learn the Olympic lifts, really learn them, dump everything else and do something like Dan John's beginner Olympic lifting program. If you want more volume, pick up a German volume program.

I think herein lies the problem with knowing as much as we do, while still learning new stuff at the rate we can learn it. We're suffering from intellectual noob gains, and it makes it really hard to focus on a singular goal. Which one thing is the most important to you? That's your only focus for the next six weeks.

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