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 Post subject: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:57 am 
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Location: Australia
Background:
I've done squats regularly in the past. Back, front, hack, DB, etc. My form was good, however I've never felt strong with them. I thought squats were king, but they never did much for me except make me able to do squats better.
I have short legs and a long torso for my height. It's not my imagination. People comment. I have to set the leg extension and leg curls to the smallest leg size possible, yet I am average height. (and conversely I have to set the seated presses to the biggest height for my torso)... :diabloanifire: <-- thats a movie of me doing body weight fire squats :smilebox:
:naka: <- here's a movie of me doing partial-partial hulk smashes.

I feel bio-mechanically that I am much more comfortable doing deadlifts and leg presses than squats.
My goal is mainly hypertrophy (and the associated general fitness that comes with lifting weights).

Question:
Can I ditch the squats for good? Instead stick to leg presses, deadlifts, and the various assistant exercises.

From what I've read on the net so far, it seems to be alright for my goals. My days of training with goals relating to functional strength and powerlifting are definitely behind me.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:11 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:15 am
Posts: 94
MikeF wrote:
:diabloanifire:
Thoughts?

Pleeeeeaaaaase. This is extremely annoying and can cause seizures.


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:22 am 
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Posts: 42
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josh60 wrote:
MikeF wrote:
:diabloanifire:
Thoughts?

Pleeeeeaaaaase. This is extremely annoying and can cause seizures.

I suppose we shouldn't propagate it via quoted posts?


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:47 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:20 pm
Posts: 4424
you can absolutely ditch squats in favour of leg presses and deadlifts. However it'd be a good idea to put some single leg work in there like lunges or bulgarian split squats


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am
Posts: 1043
MikeF wrote:
Background:I have short legs and a long torso for my height.


NOT Built To Squat

Individuals with a long torso, are not built for the squat.


Quote:
I feel bio-mechanically that I am much more comfortable doing deadlifts and leg presses than squats.


Built To Deadlift

Yes, you are built to deadlift. As for leg presses, they pretty much work for everyone.

Quote:
My goal is mainly hypertrophy (and the associated general fitness that comes with lifting weights).


Vince Taylor Leg Press

One of the best bodybuilder around is Vince Taylor. http://www.bodybuilders.com/vince.htm

Taylor hated squats, so he quite doing them. Instead Taylor did leg presses and built a great set of legs.

Leg Press Variations

Taylor Performed various type of leg presses.

1) Wide Stance

2) Narrow Stance

3) Feet High on Platform

4) Feet Low on Platform

5) One Leg, Leg Press...etc

Vince Gironda

One of the best bodybuilding coaches around was the late Vince Gironda. Gironda had NO squat stand in his gym. He was not an advocate of squats.

However, I am an advocate of performing some type of Squat movement.

Why Squat?

The squat simply works more muscle groups than a leg press.

Weak Link In The Traditional Squat

What you want is a movement that takes your long torso out of the equation and allows you to really blast the legs.

Squats For The Biomechanically Challanged (which includes ME)

1) Step Ups

2) Lunges (to some extent)

3) Belt Squats. This is one of the best movement there is. It allows you to overload the legs.


Quote:
Question:
Can I ditch the squats for good? Instead stick to leg presses, deadlifts, and the various assistant exercises.


Absolutely. You have a variety of options.

Quote:
From what I've read on the net so far, it seems to be alright for my goals. My days of training with goals relating to functional strength and powerlifting are definitely behind me.


As a powerlifter, Belt Squats are the foundation of my squat training. That is just how good Belt Squat are.

The Exercist (the movie)

Every time I hear the phrase "Functional Strength Training" my head twist around my neck 360 degrees and I speak in "tongues".

Free weight movement replicated "Daily Functional Activities".

With that said, everyone should perform some type of "Daily Functional Exercise"...such as deadlifts, step ups, lunges, etc

Kenny Croxdale

_________________
Thanks TimD.


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:18 pm
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Location: Australia
Thanks for the replies! You have given me more to work on and validated what I thought.

I will definitely add some single leg work. I must admit I do still prefer lunges over squats, so will throw them in the mix occasionally (especially dumbbell lunges).

Squats have never really challenged my legs. They challenge my torso. Even after months of correct form and consistent weekly or twice weekly squat sessions. Deadlifts have only ever challenged my legs and grip. I figure maybe its to do with the weight relative to my centre of gravity and that's why squats don't hit the correct targets and deadlifts do.


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:42 pm
Posts: 738
Kenny Croxdale wrote:
MikeF wrote:
Background:I have short legs and a long torso for my height.


NOT Built To Squat

Individuals with a long torso, are not built for the squat.


Quote:
I feel bio-mechanically that I am much more comfortable doing deadlifts and leg presses than squats.


Built To Deadlift

Yes, you are built to deadlift. As for leg presses, they pretty much work for everyone.

Quote:
My goal is mainly hypertrophy (and the associated general fitness that comes with lifting weights).


Vince Taylor Leg Press

One of the best bodybuilder around is Vince Taylor. http://www.bodybuilders.com/vince.htm

Taylor hated squats, so he quite doing them. Instead Taylor did leg presses and built a great set of legs.

Leg Press Variations

Taylor Performed various type of leg presses.

1) Wide Stance

2) Narrow Stance

3) Feet High on Platform

4) Feet Low on Platform

5) One Leg, Leg Press...etc

Vince Gironda

One of the best bodybuilding coaches around was the late Vince Gironda. Gironda had NO squat stand in his gym. He was not an advocate of squats.

However, I am an advocate of performing some type of Squat movement.

Why Squat?

The squat simply works more muscle groups than a leg press.

Weak Link In The Traditional Squat

What you want is a movement that takes your long torso out of the equation and allows you to really blast the legs.

Squats For The Biomechanically Challanged (which includes ME)

1) Step Ups

2) Lunges (to some extent)

3) Belt Squats. This is one of the best movement there is. It allows you to overload the legs.


Quote:
Question:
Can I ditch the squats for good? Instead stick to leg presses, deadlifts, and the various assistant exercises.


Absolutely. You have a variety of options.

Quote:
From what I've read on the net so far, it seems to be alright for my goals. My days of training with goals relating to functional strength and powerlifting are definitely behind me.


As a powerlifter, Belt Squats are the foundation of my squat training. That is just how good Belt Squat are.

The Exercist (the movie)

Every time I hear the phrase "Functional Strength Training" my head twist around my neck 360 degrees and I speak in "tongues".

Free weight movement replicated "Daily Functional Activities".

With that said, everyone should perform some type of "Daily Functional Exercise"...such as deadlifts, step ups, lunges, etc

Kenny Croxdale
THis is interesting. I have long legs but I also have a long(longer) torso. Kind of makes sense that my squat numbers aren't that great.


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
Deific Wizard of Sagacity

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:19 pm
Posts: 4424
Location: Pennsylvania
"Individuals with a long torso, are not built for the squat." - Kenny Croxdale

"Yes, you are built to deadlift. As for leg presses, they pretty much work for everyone." - Kenny Croxdale

This doesn't make sense to me. I've always heard that having short limbs and a proportionally long torso is better for squatting and benching, while long limbs and a short torso are better for deadlifts (especially convensional deadlifts).

I'm 5'6" with short arms and legs, and my best squat is only 30 lbs less than my best deadlift (465 lbs vrs 495 lbs).


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 Post subject: Re: Ditch the squat?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:18 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Australia
Matt Z wrote:
"Individuals with a long torso, are not built for the squat." - Kenny Croxdale

"Yes, you are built to deadlift. As for leg presses, they pretty much work for everyone." - Kenny Croxdale

This doesn't make sense to me. I've always heard that having short limbs and a proportionally long torso is better for squatting and benching, while long limbs and a short torso are better for deadlifts (especially convensional deadlifts).

I'm 5'6" with short arms and legs, and my best squat is only 30 lbs less than my best deadlift (465 lbs vrs 495 lbs).


I always felt that my workout with the squat was with my back and shoulders (trying to get the bar lower enough so my centre of gravity was lower, yet trying to keep my back up enough so that I wasn't leaning my torso so far over my toes) when it should have been my legs. On the other hand the only thing that limits my deadlifts is my grip at this point. With squats my centre of gravity feels all wrong (part way up my back) but deadlifts it feels like its at my midsection (and my arms are short to average so no advantage there). I wonder if this is why front squats always felt better than back squats. I didn't feel like my COG was so far out with them, and the lift would usually target my quads for the most part. My front squat numbers were generally the same as my back squat despite having the bar resting on my 'small' shoulders.

I haven't really heard either way up until this point (though I never really looked to find out because it didn't occur to me), but now Kenny said that, it seems to make perfect sense to me.


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