ExRx.net

Exercise Prescription on the Net
It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:56 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:57 am 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
How long do each of the five macro stages last and are they equal in length?
Should there be less stages if the training is not for a competition?
source: http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Periodization.html

Hypertrophy training
***1-12 RM in periodized fashion (emphasis on the 6-12 RM zone)
***1-to-2 min rest periods between sets
***moderate contraction velocity
***higher volume, multiple-set programs
source: http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Guidelines.html


Thanks in advance!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:31 am 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: Lapland, Finland
Wow. That's pretty advanced. Not too many of us here use actual periodization. Practically all of us do, but we don't have too much of different phases around.

What do you actually want to include peridization and why?

_________________
Physical Preparedness Coach
Co-Owner of UniFit Oy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:39 am 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
Dub wrote:
Wow. That's pretty advanced. Not too many of us here use actual periodization. Practically all of us do, but we don't have too much of different phases around.

What do you actually want to include peridization and why?


Hmm, I was actually trying to keep it simple... Was reading "basic guidelines". Also, read that common mistakes are to keep everything perfectly linear. The basic guide suggested "periodized fashion" but didn't elaborate. The 5 stages looked clearer than anything I found.

And then this thread.


Ps
I am NOT looking at the micro cycle in that link :)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:20 pm 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: Lapland, Finland
Linear progression works well for beginners and those who are starting proper weight training. The problem comes only then when you can't simply go forward with linear progression. I used linear progression for over half years, and the basic templates (Starting strength, Stronglifts) are based around it. Nonlinear(undulating, waving) progression has different intensities week-in week-out, and the template doesn't follow a straight, linear line (duh). You wont go from lower weight to higher weight step by step, or from higher volume to higher intensity. But you mix it up a little. 531 is pretty unlinear, since it has a deload microcycle, but the macrocycles are then again progressing linearry.

Peridodization is also good for some longer and larger goals that might need more than just one particular skill (i.e speed, strength, size or condition). I think the length of the blocks is determined by what you want to achieve: Where do you need the most work? Or is there a reason (Like a personal obstacle or focusing on some other skill) you need only maintenance? Also there are different methods, some like short training blocks and cycles, some like longer.

This is the most comprehensive (and not way too advanced) article I could find about the subject, describing different methods of periodization. If interested, go read it. But don't stress about this stuff. Just learn.
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-a ... -training/

EDIT: Just to say this: Periodization is usually used when planning a year(more or less) of lifting, and it usually has several different abilities (like hyperthrophy, speed and strength) written in it, usually in blocks. When you are doing just one thing, you are not periodizating much. You can alter the progression of your hyperthrophy phase between linear and undulating, but there really is nothing more if you don't have anything else in your training plans. That is why I asked on what you want to include on your periodization. If you want, here are other great in-depth articles around the subject:
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-a ... ion-bible/
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-a ... -training/
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-a ... odization/

EDIT2: As I was saying, these aren't necessary at this point of your training. You can, but you don't have to. Your quote from the link was from part "Intermediate to advanced training".

_________________
Physical Preparedness Coach
Co-Owner of UniFit Oy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:52 pm 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
Good stuff, Dub. Noted. Perhaps I was too eager to qualify myself as intermediate. I lifted for 5 years, then fell of for about 2, and came back in the past few months.

A short citation and a short follow-up question.

"...Use the LEAST COMPLEX PROGRAMMING possible at all times."
Quote:
"...Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe, pg. 168-171, PP The intermediate stage is the place where most athletes make their biggest training mistakes...Many intermediate trainees get caught up in an endless cycle of “changing routines”, constantly messing with the weekly schedule of exercises, sets, and reps...variety lies in the way the basic exercises are applied, and not in a bunch of new exercises.
Translation - Just because you're not doing the core program, doesn't mean you shouldn't use core exercises. Do not change your primary workout stimuli from "squats-benches-rows" to "leg extensions - Nautilus flyes - Soup can curls". That isn't variety. That's stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe, pg. 173 PP Variety for variety’s sake is pointless. All training must be planned, and success must be planned for, and all the variety in the world is no substitute for correct planning.
Translation - "Different" isn't always better. "Better planning" will equal "better", however."

source: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Programming

I'm having a hard time reconciling conclusions [I] and [II] below.
[I] Doing the same thing for more than a month is not very good (even for beginners).
[II](a) Core, compound exercises should be at least 80% of the program (if not more).
[II](b) Core, compound exercises should not be messed with (i.e. subject to variation by switching them).

This seems to lead to the conclusion that variation and change should come from varying Intensity and Volume. Which brings me full circle back to the 5 stage periodization schedule in original post. http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Periodization.html
Another two possible answers:
- The startingstrength article is crap.
- My inferences [I] and [II] are crap.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:09 pm 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: Lapland, Finland
One other thing to consider is movements. You see somebody do a front squat. That's a vertical press for legs, or a "squat pattern". It works certain muscles. Now, you see somebody do a back squat, a box squat or a step up. It's still a vertical press for legs, and fills the criteria of a squat pattern. All of the exercises use the exact same muscles. Some emphasize more, some less.

Same goes with Bench and Rows. You see someone bench pressing. It's a horizontal press. What else is considered horizontal pressing? DB variation, Incline variation, push-up variations. Same muscles and the same movement pattern and function. Then overhead presses are pretty much in the same category, only change is that it's more vertical. Rowing and pull-ups, all pulling. Other more vertical the other horizontal. Still the same muscles. Whether you use Dumbells or barbells, wether you use dead-stop rows or yates rows.

You see where I'm going? You have to look beyond the exercise. Get a bigger picture. A leg press isn't a bad choise, but it's not that great a squat exercise since it neglects the core and major part of hip movement.

The "Not Doing the same thing over a month" is a myth. Sort of. Doing 3x10 Bench Presses with 60kg for four weeks will kill your progress and is not good. But, uh oh, you happen to use progressions. Either linear or undulating. It means there's none of that silly adaptation stuff people tout about, and you will make progress. You should do specific routine at least 12 weeks in my books. But there's no reason not to have variations on the core movements. Program hopping is a sure thing that'll get you weak and powerless.

_________________
Physical Preparedness Coach
Co-Owner of UniFit Oy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:17 pm 
Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:40 pm
Posts: 1141
Location: Lapland, Finland
One reason Intermediate and advanced lifters use Periodization blocks is that they have reached the phase when there isn't that much room to improve. They need to add different angles along the way, and improve different abilities to get forward. Example: Powerlifters usually have blocks for Dynamic Effort and Maximal Effort, on minimun. To get a bigger number on some exercise, they need to increase strength AND bar speed. Two different training methods need to be focused on. The strength improvements on ME are small, and you can't keep going more intense when there's hundreds of pounds of steel on your hands. You'll stall. One method to get forward is increasing explosiveness and bar speed. That's where dynamic effort comes to play. It works vice versa as well.

_________________
Physical Preparedness Coach
Co-Owner of UniFit Oy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:26 pm 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
All noted and understood.

Everything you said applies to auxiliary work too? Just an example, on top of basic curls, I add 1 aux exercise--keep it the same or constantly change it? Same applies to delts; I do 2 lateral and 2 posterior exercises. Change up or keep?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:56 pm 
Offline
moderator
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:44 pm
Posts: 6416
Location: Halifax, NS
emil3m wrote:
All noted and understood.

Everything you said applies to auxiliary work too? Just an example, on top of basic curls, I add 1 aux exercise--keep it the same or constantly change it? Same applies to delts; I do 2 lateral and 2 posterior exercises. Change up or keep?


Read through some of Kenny Croxdale's posts on this forum. He hides little gems in them every so often. He refers to "throw away" exercises and exercises to keep. The big exercises are always there while the auxiliary ones rotate in and out. Following is one such reference.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7385&p=60971&hilit=+throw+away+exercises#p60971

_________________
Stu Ward
_________________
Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
_________________
Thanks TimD


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Periodization timing
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:40 pm 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
stuward wrote:
Read through some of Kenny Croxdale's posts on this forum.


I certainly do! Even ordered the book he recommended, "Nutrient Timing."
Some of the Olympic/Powerlifting stuff is too much for me, but great reads nonetheless. Colorful writing style as well.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 


All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group