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too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups
http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9330
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Author:  Caniv [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

Hey guys.

this is my 2nd week into the gym after a few years, the nice people here helped me build a plan but issue is,
there is no assisted pull-up/chest dip. so i was wondering what i can do to build enough strangth asap so i can
integrate these into my routine?

is the cable-pulldown a good replacement for Pull-ups? (exrex says its the EXACT same muscles)

and what can i do to replace Chest dips? if im not mistaken there are no parallel bars in order to do
ches dips in my gym (i could be mistaken but im pretty sure) - any other ex as good for same muscle
grps?

p.s
still doing 3X12 for all ex's, even tho goal is hypertrophy, after week 3/4 ill go down to 8 reps and from there to 6.
TY!

Author:  stuward [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

Instead of dips, do pushups.

Pulldowns will do the job.

Author:  robertscott [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

I actually think that the pulldown could well be better than chins/pull ups for building muscle.

I realise that might be considered quite controversial but I do have my reasons. Lots of people have trouble engaging their lats, there's been a few threads here about it, and I think the pulldown is better because it's easier to pause and squeeze in the contracted position, and really slow the negative. Back muscles really seem to respond to a good squeeze and a slow negative. Backs also seem to do well with a higher rep range, like 12-15.

To do that doing pull ups would mean you would have to be VERY good at pull ups. How many people do their pull ups with a pause in the top position and a 3 second eccentric? Not many, and even fewer are doing it for sets of 12-15.

Just my musings, but I know that I did chins for years without much growth in my lats at all (although I got ok at doing chins I guess...), and since switching to pulldowns my lats are growing much faster.

Also, the soreness I got from chins/pull ups was always in my teres major. I dunno if that's worth considering, just thought I'd mention it.

Author:  Caniv [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

robertscott wrote:
I actually think that the pulldown could well be better than chins/pull ups for building muscle.

I realise that might be considered quite controversial but I do have my reasons. Lots of people have trouble engaging their lats, there's been a few threads here about it, and I think the pulldown is better because it's easier to pause and squeeze in the contracted position, and really slow the negative. Back muscles really seem to respond to a good squeeze and a slow negative. Backs also seem to do well with a higher rep range, like 12-15.

To do that doing pull ups would mean you would have to be VERY good at pull ups. How many people do their pull ups with a pause in the top position and a 3 second eccentric? Not many, and even fewer are doing it for sets of 12-15.

Just my musings, but I know that I did chins for years without much growth in my lats at all (although I got ok at doing chins I guess...), and since switching to pulldowns my lats are growing much faster.

Also, the soreness I got from chins/pull ups was always in my teres major. I dunno if that's worth considering, just thought I'd mention it.


nice!
convinced me for the pull downs

about chest dips - any chance they could be replaced by anything other than push ups? i HATE push ups... being perfectly honest, being able to do many chest drips is a personal dream that i really wanna accomplish.

and if i HAVE to do pushups, what kind? elbows go sideways? or downward? do i do wide? close? diamond? (that is, assuming there is no other solution except push ups)

ty!

Author:  ephs [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

pushups and you can assist your pull ups by placing your forefeet with bent knees on a bench and then push yourself a bit up with your legs.

Author:  stuward [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

Watch this about pushups:



It'sdone by Martin Rooney who's site is here: http://www.trainingforwarriors.com/

I doesn't matter what kind of pushups you do. Do the type you are able to and keep progressing to more advanced types when you're able. Eventually you'll also be doing dips.

Author:  robertscott [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

Caniv wrote:

and if i HAVE to do pushups, what kind? elbows go sideways? or downward? do i do wide? close? diamond? (that is, assuming there is no other solution except push ups)

ty!


do you really have to do dips? There's plenty other chest exercises out there. Dips are basically just a decline press which you can do with dumbells or a bar.

Author:  Caniv [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

honestly, "have to", the mature answer is no =)

ill look for a replacement.. thanks!

Author:  Matt Z [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

Bench Dips might help build up you arm strength (triceps), but they probably won't do much for your chest. ... Still, that might get you closer to being able to do dips.

Author:  Matt Z [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

Also, try doing pushups with your feet elevated ... Much harder than regular pushups.

To increase ROM you can use a pair of pushup handles, OR just use a pair of hex dumbbells as pushup handles.

Author:  Caniv [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

Matt Z wrote:
Also, try doing pushups with your feet elevated ... Much harder than regular pushups.

To increase ROM you can use a pair of pushup handles, OR just use a pair of hex dumbbells as pushup handles.


thats a really good idea! and that way i can go down all the way to the floor with a negative angle and get more chest work?

Author:  JasonJones [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

robertscott wrote:
I actually think that the pulldown could well be better than chins/pull ups for building muscle.

Just my musings, but I know that I did chins for years without much growth in my lats at all (although I got ok at doing chins I guess...), and since switching to pulldowns my lats are growing much faster.


Agree 100%. I can do a tonne of chins — even dead stop — and it ain't because of my chicken lats. I've been rethinking lat training a lot lately and I'm finding alternatives like Pendlay rows are moving me closer to curing my imaginary lat syndrome. Now I just need to do something about my imaginary chest, triceps and biceps…

Author:  Crow [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

@ caniv

I think I can`t post a link here, but you could look on the exrx-page for an exercise done with Cables. Like the "Cable Standing Decline Chest Press", the "Cable Standing Chest Press" or other variations with the cable. (I don`t know your whole workout, so perhaps there are better suited exercises for your workout - for (Triceps) Dips I used a machine with a lever -> "lever chest dip")

Author:  Matt Z [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: too weak for Chest dip/Pull ups

"thats a really good idea! and that way i can go down all the way to the floor with a negative angle and get more chest work?" - Caniv

Yes. It will also strengthen your wrists since you grip the handles/dumbbells, rather than placing your hands flat on the floor.

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