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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Apprentice
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Hi everybody!
Quick context.
- The only time for me to train is within 30min of waking. 3-day ABABAB split. Both A & B are centered around the big boys: Squat, Dead, Bench, Row, Press, Chin. Each day ends with 4 accessory exercises (paired in 2 supersets). The whole thing takes 60min at moderate-to-high tempo (2min rests during main lifts and 90sec during supersets). No cardio.
- I actually enjoy clean food about as much as I do fast carbs. Without paying much attention to macros/calories/cheating, the spilt of clean-dirty is roughly 80-20 (guesstimate).
- I do not have strength goals or size goals. Fitness and health as a lifestyle is the goal. I'm happy with the feel and mirror tests, but always looking forward.

John Kiefer is fairly clear when he talks about CBL for people who train in the afternoon or at night. But I could not find such clarity with respect to lifting first thing in the morning. Can you guys weigh in with thoughts/experiences/opinions?

Why am I asking? Who wouldn't want to cut BF and gain muscle/strength while consuming [2g carbs/1lb BW] in form of ice cream, pizza, burgers, fries, and desserts? I'm being facetious, but really--sounds like a ton of fun!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:35 am 
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Powerlifting Ninja
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:36 am
Posts: 1043
emil3m wrote:
Hi everybody!
Quick context.
- The only time for me to train is within 30min of waking. 3-day ABABAB split. Both A & B are centered around the big boys: Squat, Dead, Bench, Row, Press, Chin. Each day ends with 4 accessory exercises (paired in 2 supersets). The whole thing takes 60min at moderate-to-high tempo (2min rests during main lifts and 90sec during supersets). No cardio.
- I actually enjoy clean food about as much as I do fast carbs. Without paying much attention to macros/calories/cheating, the spilt of clean-dirty is roughly 80-20 (guesstimate).
- I do not have strength goals or size goals. Fitness and health as a lifestyle is the goal. I'm happy with the feel and mirror tests, but always looking forward.

John Kiefer is fairly clear when he talks about CBL for people who train in the afternoon or at night. But I could not find such clarity with respect to lifting first thing in the morning. Can you guys weigh in with thoughts/experiences/opinions?

Why am I asking? Who wouldn't want to cut BF and gain muscle/strength while consuming [2g carbs/1lb BW] in form of ice cream, pizza, burgers, fries, and desserts? I'm being facetious, but really--sounds like a ton of fun!


"What's the Best Diet for Losing Fat?"
http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/w ... losing-fat

Low Carb

Dr Jose Antonio presents some good information on how low carbohydrate diet are very effective at decreasing body fat.

Unfortunately, low carb diet are also effective at decreasing muscle mass.

Traditional Diet

Antonio demonstrates that a traditional diet combined with exercise slightly decreased body fat while increasing muscle mass.

"Bottom Line"

1) In general, the best diet for promoting fat loss is a very low carbohydrate, ketogenic diet.

2. In general, the best diet for promoting gains in LBM while losing a modicum fat is one higher in carbs and protein."


Additional research has demonstrated when the carbohydrate to protein ratio drops below a 2:1 ratio, testosterone drop, as well.

"Testosterone Diet"

Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ratio alters reciprocally the plasma levels of testosterone and cortisol and their respective binding globulins in man.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3573976

"There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet..."

Why Low-Carb Diets are Inferior For Strength & Muscle Gains
http://anthonycolpo.com/why-low-carb...-muscle-gains/

University of North Carolina Study

The resting free testosterone:cortisol ratio decreased significantly from pre- to post-study in the low-carbohydrate group (-43%), but no change occurred in the high-carbohydrate group (-3%).

A Bodybuilding Case Study (audio)
http://www.rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-01-5 ... llege.html

Drs. Layne Norton and Jake Wilson's interview with Chris Fahs and Dr. Lindy Rossow proved a case study in a competitive bodybuilder (Chris Fahs) contest preparation in cutting his body fat down to the bone.

That required cutting carbohydrates and calories.

Here are some of the results that occurred during the dieting phase.

1) Testosterone: A 70% Decrease.

2) Cortisol: A 100% Increase

Post Bodybuilding Contest

Restoration of testosterone hormonal levels did NOT return to NEAR normal in 3 months!

In other words, at 3 months you still NOT back to normal.

Morning Training

I train in the morning. I like any other type of training.

Pre, Peri, and Post

To maximize your training, you need to ingest something before, during and after you training session.

Nutrient Timing

Dr. John Ivy is one of the leading sports nutrition experts and researchers on this.

His book, Nutrient Timing, is a excellent. Simple and easy to read.

Heart Attack Analogy

If you KNEW you were going to have a heart attach would you...

1) Take something before you had it to diminish it?

2) Take something while you having it to minimize it?

3) Take something afterward to recovery from it?

4) Do nothing?

Answer: 1, 2, and 3.

Training Trauma

Training stresses the body. What you want to do is minimize the trauma and do what you can to enhance recovery.

A Pre, Peri and Post Workout beverage/snack/meal does that.

Carb Depletion

Obviously, bodybuilders and those who want to cut fat will find various type of carb depletion beneficial.

However, you going to pay for it somewhere down the line.

Kenny Croxdale

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Apprentice
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 196
Kenny Croxdale wrote:
Obviously, bodybuilders and those who want to cut fat will find various type of carb depletion beneficial.

However, you going to pay for it somewhere down the line.


I took in your advice. Nutrient Timing is on the bookshelf. Backloading no longer seems to be worth the trouble or the "payment down the line." Depleting and backloading also seems like a massive headache.

I can't really take anything during workout though. You mention "peri" nutrition. Other than water, nothing seems to sit well. I do take [carb+protein] pre and post though.

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