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 Post subject: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:58 am 
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Middle aged guy wants to pull a conventional strapless, raw, clean 500x2 within the next two years at 220lbs. I am currently capable of 405x5 (relatively easy) and am already over that bodyweight. Any tips?


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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:46 am 
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1. Deadlift a lot, hone in the technique
2. Work your weak points. Hammer your hamstrings, glutes, back and core. Grip work if needed
3. Put extra effort on your sticking points. If you miss off the floor, work deficit/snatch grip and/or speed pulls. If you have trouble with lockout and around knees, pull from blocks or pins. Maybe try pauses
4. Be smart with intensity, frequency and volume. You don't want to go balls to walls every workout. Use lighter weights and higher speed on one day, heavier the other. Some people get results with 1 deadlift day a week or even less, some (like me) use DL twice a week.
5. Have a plan, have a system.
6. Find what works for YOU

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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:02 am 
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Dub wrote:
1. Deadlift a lot, hone in the technique
2. Work your weak points. Hammer your hamstrings, glutes, back and core. Grip work if needed
3. Put extra effort on your sticking points. If you miss off the floor, work deficit/snatch grip and/or speed pulls. If you have trouble with lockout and around knees, pull from blocks or pins. Maybe try pauses
4. Be smart with intensity, frequency and volume. You don't want to go balls to walls every workout. Use lighter weights and higher speed on one day, heavier the other. Some people get results with 1 deadlift day a week or even less, some (like me) use DL twice a week.
5. Have a plan, have a system.
6. Find what works for YOU


Sweet, thanks for the tips. Re: #3 - my sticking point has traditionally been about 2 inches off the ground. From ground to 2", feels good, then boom, and it just kills all my speed. Any thoughts on what to do in this spot? Deficits, to work on speed through that spot?


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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:34 am 
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jackthestrat wrote:
Sweet, thanks for the tips. Re: #3 - my sticking point has traditionally been about 2 inches off the ground. From ground to 2", feels good, then boom, and it just kills all my speed. Any thoughts on what to do in this spot? Deficits, to work on speed through that spot?

Work on absolute and accelerating strength. Your starting strength and explosiveness gets the weight off the floor, but when it comes to accelerating and creating even more force, you have trouble. Or atleast that's my theory. So maybe speed work with a bit heavier weights, like 70-80% of your 1RM would be good.

I would see two good options on specifically addressing the issue:
1) Have a pause after you get the weight off the floor. Like a 2-4 second pause, just hold the weight, then blast up. You need to use way less weight on this one, but it could be beneficial to add as supplemental work. Isometric work has been proven to improve range-specific strength.
2) Pull from 1-2" block or something similar. You could try to add more range specific strength by starting the deadlift from the sticking point or just below it. At least the mental barrier would be crushed.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 12:15 pm 
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jackthestrat wrote:
Middle aged guy wants to pull a conventional strapless, raw, clean 500x2 within the next two years at 220lbs. I am currently capable of 405x5 (relatively easy) and am already over that bodyweight. Any tips?


I would suggest deficit deadlifts and front squats. Do them both for a few months and then see where you're at. You don't need a big deficit, I stand on a 20kgs (45) plate.

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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:36 pm 
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""
Work on absolute and accelerating strength. Your starting strength and explosiveness gets the weight off the floor, but when it comes to accelerating and creating even more force, you have trouble. Or atleast that's my theory. So maybe speed work with a bit heavier weights, like 70-80% of your 1RM would be good.""

""
I would suggest deficit deadlifts and front squats. Do them both for a few months and then see where you're at. You don't need a big deficit, I stand on a 20kgs (45) plate.""


My current DL scheme looks like this...done once weekly...I was planning to run the gains from this into the ground since I am still making slow but steady linear gains.

1x5 Conventional from Floor
(rationale - main work for the day, everything else is icing)
3-5x10 Sumo from Floor @ 60% calculated Conventional 1RM
(rationale - hip hinge practice, some extra volume, can do these FAST, and I only squat 1x weekly)
3x5 Power Shrugs @ 60%calculated 1RM
(rationale - who doesn't love big traps)
Chin-Ups 3x5 negatives + 3xAMRAP Dead Hang
(rationale - overall mid back/lats need focus at the moment, helping to psuh some secondary OHP and Bench goals forward)
Horizontal Chins/Rows @ BWx3x5
(rationale - for BW, this is just some extra work to keep me moving between Chin sets)

Do you guys think that breaking up the 3-5x10 Sumo sets like the following would be in the right ballpark?

2x5 Conventional @ 80% (Speed Work)
3x10 @ 60% Deficit Sumo Double Overhand (Sticking Point/Grip)


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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 2:05 pm 
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5 reps is a lot for speed/power work. I think the best for speed and explosiveness is 1-3 reps tops. But with many sets. I like to do 6-10 singles or doubles for speed work.

Also I don't think doing 10 reps of sumo deadlifts will be most beneficial for you goal. It will build muscle, submaximal strength and better grip, but not really maximal/absolute strength. Plus it's very very taxing to your back and CNS

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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:27 pm 
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Here's a good article for you Jack.

http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2011/02/ad ... dlift.html

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 Post subject: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Tons of great advice and an awesome article. Thanks team. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Deadlift Goal Tips
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:05 am 
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Dub wrote:
5 reps is a lot for speed/power work. I think the best for speed and explosiveness is 1-3 reps tops. But with many sets. I like to do 6-10 singles or doubles for speed work.

Also I don't think doing 10 reps of sumo deadlifts will be most beneficial for you goal. It will build muscle, submaximal strength and better grip, but not really maximal/absolute strength. Plus it's very very taxing to your back and CNS


Dub and Proper Knob

They've cover it well. However, let me add some tidbits of information.

Floor Deadlift Strength

The lower back initiates the drive off the floor in a Conventional Deadlift.

The Foundation of Power and Speed

The foundation of power and speed is Limit Strength (1 Repetition Max).

Thus, to increase your power at you sticking point a couple of inches off the floor, Deficit Deadlifts (Dub) will work. Also, Stiff Leg Deadlifts (slight break in the knees) off the floor and from a deficit.

As per Dr Tom McLaughlin's (PhD Biomechanics/former powerlifter) the firing sequence in a Convetional Deadlift is Back > Legs > Back. See below.

THE DEADLIFT: A SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS
http://www.nhomag.com/99_v1_n2_5.asp

An analysis of the muscle involvement during the Conventional deadlift reveals that there are three distinct phases of muscle involvement during the lift. The first phase occurs as the athlete tries to initially move the bar from the floor. Contrary to popular opinion, the initial drive is done primarily by the back (erector spinae) and not the legs. If the athlete tries to move the weight using their legs instead of their back the result is a premature straightening of the legs and an unwanted curvature of the back.

Evidence to support this theory is found in the research done by Dr. Tom McLaughlin.1 McLaughlin compared the deadlift styles of top powerlifters at the time such as Jon Kuc, Bill Kazmaier, and Vince Anello. His results showed that all the lifters had similar styles exhibiting back extension at the beginning of the lift. McLaughlin felt that the reason for this is because the total force of the legs is inadequate at the start of the deadlift for most individuals.

Power Off The Floor

As Dub noted, using lighter load from a dead stop and blasting the weight up will help.

However, performing Conventional Deadlifts with a bounce is another very effective tool in developing power off the floor.

Deadlift 5 Plates Like a Champion
http://www.wannabebig.com/training/dead ... -champion/

This article provides some good solutions that address weak points.

8 New Exercises For a Thicker, Stronger Back
http://www.t-nation.com/training/8-new- ... onger-back

I agree with Contreras on this. Increasing Thoracic Extension strength plays a major role in getting the weight up.

Kenny Croxdale

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