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Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?
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Author:  Mike [ Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

So I have been following Candito Linear programme with speed deadlifts rather than paused deadlifts. I find it virtually impossible to bonk them out as fast as I can and still breathe while I am doing it. So I hold my breath for each set, 6x4, and get dizzy --- which I kind of like but it does feel a bit too dizzy.

Does anyone know how you are suppose to breathe when you are deadlifting as fast as you can? I can't figure it out

Author:  stuward [ Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Brace at the bottom, expel the air quickly once you set the bar back down, then repeat the cycle. Speed squats are supposed to be explosive on the way up, but take the time to set up each rep.

Author:  Crow [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

@ Mike

Why do you use "speed-deadlifts" (in this context)? Are you using Bands or Chains for acommodating resistance?

Author:  Mike [ Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Crow wrote:
@ Mike

Why do you use "speed-deadlifts" (in this context)? Are you using Bands or Chains for acommodating resistance?


Good question... They are recommended by JC in his 'power' version of the linear programme. I like to do cleans so I felt maybe speed deadlifts would help. I don't have any chains/bands/etc.

Author:  Crow [ Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Mike wrote:
Crow wrote:
@ Mike

Why do you use "speed-deadlifts" (in this context)? Are you using Bands or Chains for acommodating resistance?


Good question... They are recommended by JC in his 'power' version of the linear programme. I like to do cleans so I felt maybe speed deadlifts would help. I don't have any chains/bands/etc.


So you are mixing the templates? Just doing speed-deadlifts and otherwise doing the "Control"-Template as written?

And you really don`t know why you do them? (Other then liking Power Cleans?)

What do you mean "you felt they would help"? Help to achieve what?

Sorry for all these questions, but I want to understand your reasoning to do them. For me personally doing paused deadlifts or snatch-grip deadlifts or deficit deadlifts helped my deadlift (to get stronger). I always tried to lift as fast as I could.

Author:  Mike [ Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Crow wrote:

So you are mixing the templates? Just doing speed-deadlifts and otherwise doing the "Control"-Template as written?

And you really don`t know why you do them? (Other then liking Power Cleans?)

What do you mean "you felt they would help"? Help to achieve what?

Sorry for all these questions, but I want to understand your reasoning to do them. For me personally doing paused deadlifts or snatch-grip deadlifts or deficit deadlifts helped my deadlift (to get stronger). I always tried to lift as fast as I could.


Essentially speed deadlifts replace the paused deadlifts yes in the 'control' programme.

I feel that my lower back struggles to fully recover over the weekend already, and I use a hook grip meaning all those heavy sets would lead to slightly rough looking thumbs were some not replaced with lighter and faster lifts.

Yes I also feel they have helped my clean. These reasons combined (in short they just seem to be easier on my body) are why I have chosen to do them although, from the OP, you can obviously see that I don't really know what I'm talking about. I currently do 6x4 180kg for these 'speed' deadlifts.

Author:  Crow [ Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Thanks for answering, Mike. Do you do any optional excercises on strength day? (or on the other day?)

Did you think about doing the hypertrophy-template for a few weeks for a change of pace?

Good luck, with your training!

Author:  Mike [ Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Yes I usually do several 'optional' excerisses --- I'm quite time rich at the moment so I can kill as much time as I like doing excersise which is nice; but I often wonder how some guys manage to recover fast enough to lift 6-8x/week!

Author:  Crow [ Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Mike wrote:
Yes I usually do several 'optional' excerisses --- I'm quite time rich at the moment so I can kill as much time as I like doing excersise which is nice; but I often wonder how some guys manage to recover fast enough to lift 6-8x/week!


Well, I think they build up slowly over time and without maxing on the first strength-excercises. Periodization is important too... when starting (like with traditional block periodization) the intensity is low, so volume (and/or) frequency can go up. As the intensity rises during the following weeks, volume and/or frequency is reduced.

I think (depending on the actual optional excercises) doing too much on Canditos Linear Program can hinder your progress, like you mentioned (not being able to do the required excercises). It could be productive to reduce the optional excercises for you at the moment. Or reduce weights and using them, like you do now.

If you like... think about periodizing your training a little within the plan. For example starting with lower weights and the hypertrophy-template for 4-6 week; than switch to the control-template (with and/or a little later without optional excercises) for another 4-6 weeks or as long as you can realize progress. Then reduce weights and start the process again. (I don`t want to talk you into not doing speed-deadlifts... just food for thought, how to deal with your situation.)

Author:  Kenny Croxdale [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Mike wrote:
So I have been following Candito Linear programme with speed deadlifts rather than paused deadlifts. I find it virtually impossible to bonk them out as fast as I can and still breathe while I am doing it. So I hold my breath for each set, 6x4, and get dizzy --- which I kind of like but it does feel a bit too dizzy.


Speed Deadlifts

This is one of those incorrect terms initially misnamed and continues to be used.

Speed Training is based on using percentages of 10-40% of one's 1 Repetition Max, with approximately 30% being the "Sweet Spot".

Power Training

Power is developed in traditional strength movements with load of 48-62% of 1 Repetition Max.

Ironically, 48-62% of 1 Repetition Max is used for "Speed Training"...meaning it's NOT "Speed Training".

With that in mind, let's examine the correct reps for "Speed Training" and "Power Training"...

Sets of 1-3 Reps

Speed and Power are best developed with repetitions of 1-3 per set.

That because of due to the fuel source...

Adenosine triphosphate (ATP)

For Speed, Power and Strength Movements, ATP is your fuel source.

ATP is depleted in about 10 seconds. Each back to back repetition deplete ATP.

That means each explosive movement you quickly deplete it.

Thus, you highest power output will be with Rep 1 and 2, Rep 3 not so much.

By the time you hit Rep 4, your power output is non-existant compared to your first two reps.

In other word, you are NOT training Speed nor Power with Rep 4. You have shifted your training protocol to something completely different.

The Rep Bible
https://www.t-nation.com/training/rep-bible

"Fatigue will set in much faster than with normal reps. For that reason, dynamic correspondence is better used for sets of low reps, say 1 to 3."

Cluster Sets

This method allows you to maintain Speed and Power by refueling ATP for each Repetition.

Pausing thirty seconds between repetition in let's say a set of 4, replenishes 50% of your APT. Thus, each successive repetition can be preformed with the greatest amount of power output.

Example

Cluster Set 1: Pull Deadlift as hard and fast as you can.

Rest: Take 30 rest.

Cluster Set 2: Pull Deadlift as hard and fast as you can.

Rest: Take 30 second rest.

Cluster Set 3: Pull Deadlift as hard and fast as you can.

Rest: Take 30 second rest.

Cluster Set 4: Pull Deadlift as hard and fast as you can.

Rest: Take 30 second rest.

6X4 Non-Stop Reps

This method is counter productive to your goal of increasing power output.

You power output is the greatest with the first repetition. You power drops so that by Rep 4 it no longer a "Speed" or "Power" Set.

When To Stop

Stop preforming any "Speed Training" and/or "Power Training" session when fatigue sets in.

Continuing elicits a different training effect, moving into Hypertrophy and Strength Endurance Training.

Hypertrophy and Strength Endurance Training kill power output development.

Breathing

Take a breath by resting 30 seconds between sets.

This will increase you power output performance...which is the MAIN objective.

Kenny Croxdale

Author:  stuward [ Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Nice Kenny. I don't know if anyone here watches kettlebell sport but they do large numbers of KB exercises over and extended period. This is a unique requirement of power and stamina. The technique used is similar to the cluster sets Kenny described. They do a rep, rest a couple seconds, then do another, and so on for 10 minutes or so. The best of them get about 100-200 reps in 10 minutes, depending on the exercise which works out to 3-6 seconds per rep. That little pause is just enough for them to replenish enough ATP to continue.

Author:  Mike [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Thankyou for all the kind replies.

Probably in this case, everything that has been said demonstrates that I don't really understand the proper reasons for trying 'speed deadlifts' so I should revert to paused or very controlled motions on my less-heavy DL day instead of trying to do something for reasons I don't fully comprehend.

Your advice is all very useful, particularly Kenny & Crow for taking the time to contribute so much!

Author:  Jungledoc [ Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Well, stick around, discuss it more as you learn more!

Thanks for posting.

Author:  fanbrits [ Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

Crow wrote:
@ Mike

Why do you use "speed-deadlifts" (in this context)? Are you using Bands or Chains for acommodating resistance?

Author:  Aegislash [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Speed deadlifts... when to breathe?

To brace correctly, you want to “imagine you have to brace for a punch.” This is the type of tension (irradiation=full body tension, engagement of multiple muscle groups or intermuscular coordination) you need for the bottom of the deadlift. This means you have to stay really tight when you setup to pull a deadlift and your breath starts this process.

By breathing correctly, you will:

– keep things tight

– protect your spine

– “wind up and set the spring”

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