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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:35 am 
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Deific Wizard of Sagacity
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I stretch pre work out everytime I train :eek:

Agree with everything else though. And most that stretch before a work out don't know what they are doing or why they are doing it so I wynds me up too but only because they're doing pointless things.

Stretching in general is blown out of proportion. People think it will snap your muscles and screw up your performance but not for any real reason. If you ever watch any kind of MMA, it's quite common to see fighters stretch just before they fight. You see it quite a lot when you watch various athletic acitvities, too.

I foam roll, static stretch, dynamic stretch(movements) then lift.

KPj


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:58 am 
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eric cressey made quite a good point about stretching before an exercise, he admitted that it can cause a decrease in power but the decrease is so slight it makes pretty much no difference. He said that he wouldn't get a 100m sprinter to stretch right before a championship race but for everyday purposes stetch away.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:15 am 
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yeah - and, some studies done, most using vertical jump as the indicator, have shown zero decrease in power. So, you have zero decrease, or you have an insiginifcant decrease. On top of that, i think the 'effects' of stretching last around 10 minutes, and this was long duration (minutes). So, if i'm deadlifting, and I stretch the hell out of my hamstrings, then warm up, them do my warm up sets, will it matter? And most people only hold the stretch for 15-30 seconds, not minutes at a time. That was an extreme example that I gave but I think it shows how insignificant the whole stretching thing is.

I just believe that you should stretch what's tight, that's all. When you just pretend for a minute that stretching causes the muscle to significantly decrease performance, then that can actually be VERY beneficial. Tight and short quads/hip flexors inhibit the glutes. What if I want to train my glutes? Performance is already screwed because of the hip flexors, so, I stretch them, weaken them, and now the glutes have no choice but to pitch in... for the same reason it's not uncommon to see the recommendation to static stretch the hip flexors before doing for a vertical jump test. If you have short upper traps, you're not going to have the ROM to train the lower traps. What can you do? Stretch the upper traps before trying to hit the lower traps...

All in all though, it's insignificant. If a muscle is short, it should be stretched... In my opinion. I also don't think there's much if any benefit in stretching post workout, contrary to popular belief. Won't do any harm, but it won't do much good, either.

KPj


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:48 am 
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see i was always told to stretch after and not before. hence why i made my post. the bro's at my gym go way overboard with it. it's rather silly.

i need to get a good stretching routine after i lift.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:12 am 
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xshawnxearthx wrote:
see i was always told to stretch after and not before. hence why i made my post. the bro's at my gym go way overboard with it. it's rather silly.

i need to get a good stretching routine after i lift.


I think everyone is told that. Might come from PE teachers in school.... Don't know. It's just one those things, you're told it from such a young age and from so many people that you don't question it. It makes sense only because that's what we've always knew. But it doesn't have much logic, there is a little, but it's just theory. Kind of like how people at some point (allegedly) believed the world was flat.

Even stretching after a workout, people generally think you NEED to 'cool down' and you NEED to stretch. But, why?

Why even stretch at all? Most people don't really know why they should stretch or why they do stretch, they just think they 'should'.

I was just stirring it up a little btw, since it's Friday. I know exactly the 'type' you mean and it does make me roll my eyes (to say the least).

Personally I think you should just stretch what's tight. If it's not tight, don't stretch it. I think dynamic stretching(movements) has far more value than static stretching but I think both should be used. I also think that not much will happen from stretching post workout - it doesn't really do anything. Post workout you get a false sense of flexiblity because you're warmer and looser and have been moving around a lot. I would rather get at the muscle (with a stretch) in it's more natural tight state.

KPj


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:44 am 
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i agree that people just stretch without knowing why, i find it happens most with people's hamstrings. The one stretch you see everyone doing is touching their toes, stretching their hamstrings all to hell and putting loads of lower back flexion into the mix too. My flatmate for example plays a lot of football (or 'soccer' if you're that way inclined...) and always stretches his hamstrings before and after. I asked him why and he said "I just always have."

it's not just stretching though. I have a friend who uses my gym, he's a basketball player foremost, and he's doing a bit of off season strength training just now. He was benching on a smith (already alarm bells ringing).

Me: "Why are you benching on the smith?"
Him: "It isolates my chest."
Me: "Why would you want to isolate your chest."
Him: "Because... because..."

i definitely think my own workouts are more productive now i understand not just the how but the WHY as well, but i guess it's a learning process that takes a bit of time for everyone.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:05 pm 
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Hmm...how about the gyms themselves?

I'll start. A gym full of machines, but no boxes for step-ups.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:03 pm 
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pdellorto wrote:
Hmm...how about the gyms themselves?

I'll start. A gym full of machines, but no boxes for step-ups.


I agree. My gym with one squat rack and dumbbells only up to 80 lbs. I am not trying to brag (Cause its not that impressive), but I'm beyond 80 for a one armed dumbbell row. Oh, and it has around 15 treadmills. I understand certain cardio machines but treadmills suck.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:25 pm 
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I don't even mind the treadmills. I just hate the lack of basic equipment that can't cost as much as one of those treadmills.

A treadmill but no boxes? No Tyler grips or lynx grips or a thick bar? No bands? No chalk? No lifting platform? No adjustable, movable benches? None of that is really that exotic. They can get all of them instead of one treadmill...and typically a gym has dozens of them.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:15 pm 
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I definitely agree about the strength training equipment. Fill that before you fill the cardio stuff. And its not because I am overly bias against cardio. Here's my reasonings against treadmills/most cardio equip-

1. I am mostly opposed to treadmills and other cardio machines because it makes me feel like a gerbil or hamster.

2. It makes working out to "convenient". I don't think cardio should be done indoors on a machine. You should be outside running, biking, hiking, swimming, whatever. It's too comfortable indoors. There is no wind resistance. There is no temperature you have to worry about, whether its too cold or too hot. People need to start cowboying up if they want to run and run outside all the time, not when its just 72 degrees outside.

There are certain times cardio is appropriate indoors. The rowing machine if you don't have a rowboat. Or a bike if you don't have one. A pool indoors if it is too cold outside (water 74 degrees doesn't count, I'm talking cold cold). Or in cases of extreme coldness or hotness. But it being 90's or in the 30's shouldn't be an excuse to run indoors (unless you have some medical condition or something). Otherwise, just toughen it up and do it outside.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:44 pm 
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i wish our gym at 65, 75, 85, and 95lb dbs. not just 60, 70, 80, 90. it would help if i could go from 70 to 75lbs.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Shawn, you can get magnetic plate add ons in various increments that you could slap on the DB's to create the weight you want. I think one brand is platemates. Just carry them in in yur gym bag.
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:28 pm 
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"A pool indoors if it is too cold outside (water 74 degrees doesn't count, I'm talking cold cold)." - Rucifer

I once went swimming in Peconic Bay in April. Water temp was somewhere in the 60s.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
"A pool indoors if it is too cold outside (water 74 degrees doesn't count, I'm talking cold cold)." - Rucifer

I once went swimming in Peconic Bay in April. Water temp was somewhere in the 60s.


I went into 58 degree water before and swam around in it for a bit. LOL not too long. The other day I did 65. I am often in need of a cold shower, err uhh, swim, if you get my drift :lol:

Oh and strength training is exempt from this whole outside rule simply because your equipment would rust, and lets face it, strength training is much more intense, but if it was 30 degrees outside you would freeze pretty quickly without bulky clothes on. And that would suck to lift in.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:02 pm 
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TimD wrote:
Shawn, you can get magnetic plate add ons in various increments that you could slap on the DB's to create the weight you want. I think one brand is platemates. Just carry them in in yur gym bag.
Tim
woah really?!?!? awesome, checking it out.


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