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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:05 am 
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I'm glad someone else has had to endure the same pain as me!, i too recently completed a gym instructor course, also to get a PT cert and i was truely disheartened with the mountains of crap that was being taught!

Along with the diet recommendations kpj got, i remember being bombarded with things like

"never squat past horizontal" and "no free weights for beginners"

So i assume from the mentality of the course material that either trainers are too lazy to teach correct form for free weights or gym goers are too stupid to learn?!? (well maybe the last bit isn't completely wrong!)

i think what annoys me most is the fact that after a year of this course which costs some amount of money let me tell you!, i spent a lot less and learnt a lot more from the books i bought and researching the net (including your good selves!!)

But i think the best line was "things might be a little different in the real world"

For this i read "this course is bulls***, and most of it is outdated or innacurate"

Courses like mine (and many others) are responsible for the wealth of 'muppet' trainers out there and i hope i have enough common sense to steer myself away from this path!


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:47 am 
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Are you in the UK? The main thing that made me mad is I couldn't do the course I wanted (NSCA) because most gyms don't recognise it. Well, not strictly true - the register of exercise professionals don't recognise it, and that's the guidelines most gyms go by. Funny thing is the same people held a 2 day seminar/conference with guest speakers recently, some of the worlds 'most respected' coaches. Who do you think they were certified by? NSCA. A few others were NASM and ACSM but none of these are the most commonly recommended. The top 2 that are pushed in the UK are notoriously bad, and notoriously expensive.

It's just a business like anything else, all about making as much money as they can, first and foremost before they even consider what they're actually teaching.


KPj


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:20 am 
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well i was in the u.k when i started my course, then i moved to ireland and due to it being one of those w/end courses, most of the study is 'distance learning' its towards an NVQ L3 so it's all work based experience that i have to evidence...... all in all, it doesn't seem like a great way to do it but time and funds only allow so much!!!

and now i'm horrified as i think my course is with one of the "terrible two"

It's a shame that in most industries, pieces of paper with your name on are more valued than the experience and knowledge you gain from just actually getting it done, i am towing the line as far as my course goes but i disagree with virtually everything i'm being taught.

I think a solid education in sports science/kinesiology/biomechanics would be the best way to get into the industry but i realised too late what i wanted to be when i grow up so overpriced and underinformed courses it is!!!


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:56 am 
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Yeah, that's what i'm going for. NVQ level 3 is equivelant to personal trainer. Level 2 is gym instuctor (as far as i know anyway).

I don't really know what the deal is with bashing certifications on here, but the one i'm doing is by an organisation that shares the name of a rather well known camp song, with builders, police men etc in the video, lol. It's actually the best of a bad bunch, but one of the most recommended in the UK. The other is called Premier lol. I figured that's far too generic to pop up in any searches, but i know trainers who got certfied through this and it's nothing short of terrible. Incidentally these are the 2 most expensive.

I found out that NASM do a Level 3 NVQ/Personal Trainer award quite close to me, and it's cheaper. That's who I plan to get the Level 3 through but I need level 2 first.

Also bear in mind that my opinion of the 'terrible 2' is not everyone elses opinion. If you want lot's of options in terms of gyms thatwill allow you to work in them, then one of the terrible 2 is easily your best bet. The register of exercise professional recommends these 2 specifically, and that's who the gyms listen to. There's clearly a business relationship there lol. You need to pay to get on the register (REPS), and you need to pay for the courses. Gyms put you through courses too. If reps recommend a specific 2, then those 2 will obviously get more business. And you'll probably find that gyms get a special rate when putting staff through those courses, well, atleast the gyms that go by REPS guidelines.

In saying that aswell, I can see the challenges certifications have. There's so much debate and uncertaintly in 'fitness', that it must be tough when it comes to making things black and white. In order to have an assessment/exam process, you need to take the uncertain, and make it certain, for exam purposes. I can understand the challenges they face, however, I do think they could do a far better job with how they teach. There's a hell of a lot of emphasis on a lot of useless stuff, and not enough emphasis on usefull stuff. It's basically a cardio course with a hint of machines, which makes no sense when you consider what the average potential client wants - to look better....

I agree on the kinesiology/biomechanics stuff. Should deffinitly be more emphasis on that. They should really hammer home on anatomy then take it to movement. Without that it's like trying to fix/modify/improve a car with no real knowledge of how it actually works.

KPj


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:22 pm 
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Staying random, I have a new tangent about gyms! I'm presently in Vancouver, Washington, along with my son. We haven't lifted since Friday, and are starting to feel sluggish. We are staying at a relative's house, who told us about a commercial gym 5 minutes away. We drove there this AM, only to find out that the day fee is $20 each! Well, that may not seem like much to some people, but that's $40 that I can't justify spending. We spent an hour (burning expensive gas) following our GPS unit's directions to several other gyms, which were either out of business, closed, not admitting guests, or with similarly-high fees. We ended up going to Starbucks. Not what we really needed. Over the last few weeks I've lifted in several commercial gyms in other parts of the country, paying $7-10, so I assume that the high fees are a local or regional matter. Makes me mad. Are those kid of day-fees common in other parts of the country?


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Doc, there are about 1/2 dozen places here where I can go for $5 but I was in Toronto a while ago and the nearest gym cost $25 a visit. Sure it was nicer than I'm used to but all I wanted to do was lift a barbell.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:39 pm 
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I'm with Stu. Shouldn't cost more than $10. Unless I can swim in a pool, which I wouldn't have the cloths for anyway.

Shoot, I just paid ten for a place with bumpers, a platform & a deadlift loading bar thing.

Sorry Doc, but that area stinks.

I imagine there are quite a few muffin tops walking around there.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:47 pm 
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dale2177 wrote:

"never squat past horizontal" and "no free weights for beginners"


I applaud you gentlemen for having the patience for sitting through this. I can't believe they get away with charging for this.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:07 am 
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The hardest thing is keeping my mouth shut. I'm not an a$$hole with stuff like this but if something doesn't make sense to me then I have no problem pointing out that it doesn't seem to make sense. Then i'll either be convinced via a better explantion or convinced that it's a lot of crap. Sometimes it triggers curiousity and i look into things more in my own time - which is actually what i hope for.

When I asked about the 55% carb recommendation (for EVERYONE), I said that - "can't get my head round that, it doesn't make sense to me" (or something), and he said you need carbs all day every day to fuel everything you're body does. I just said "why not 80% carbs then? or 30%? Why 55%?" and he said some stuff about what the 'research' says but I know what the research says, and it doesn't say that, but then again the 'research' says so many different things that you pick and choose research to suite almost any arguement - the devils in the details.

I can see why the trainers that I know kept laughing at the thought of me doing it and telling me repeatedly that'll just need bite my tongue, keep my head down and get it over with. Something I think i'll do to satisfy my disgust is to keep asking strength and power related questions. They seem to have a real problem with Strength and 'power' training i.e. max lifts, compound lift variations (like board presses, box squats etc) and speed work. Time to start expressing some curiousity over bands and chains and the likes. "Would I benefit from taking ammonia capsules before lifting?" lol.

And when they teach us benching, i'm deffinitly going to set it up PL style, screw my back in the bench, get the feet way back for leg drive, chest way up, get my arch nice and pronounced (I have a pretty good arch), big blatant belly full of air, and watch the guy sprint over to me and tell me how wrong i'm doing it. "oooops... I thought that was the right way...".. Could be fun now that I think about it.

KPj


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:20 am 
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then when he tells you how wrong you're benching KPj ask him how much he benches...

something tells me it'll be a lot less than you


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:50 am 
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He probably read a book once that had a ratio that gave 55% carbs. I know Tom Venuto's book, "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle" suggests 25% protein, 20% fat and 55% carbs. I may be off slightly as I'm going by memory but that's the ballpark. It's not that 55% means anything but 25% and 20% did and the 55% was the residual. If you beleive that 25% and 20% are too low, then the 55% has to change.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:13 am 
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I think the most significant thing was that his suggested break down was for everyone, regardless of goals, activity levels, body type, anything.....As well as the guy himself not being able to give me a good reason for it....

Good point though on having a reason for the fat and protein and the carbs is what's left - I wouldn't of thought about it that way but it makes sense.

KPj


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:22 am 
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So we were in a gym--community center, actually, Sam and me, working out. We'd finished our piteous display at the pressing bench, and had gone over to the dumb bell rack to find something to do so that anyone who is observing us would be impressed that we weren't totally weak, when Sam muttered in a low voice, while looking over my shoulder, "Dad! Look at that guy on the bench." I peeked over, and then turned and stared. An elderly (and by elderly, I usually mean "older than me", but he was probably in his 70s) man was stretched out on the bench. That particular rack has two sets of hooks to rack the bar on. We had left the empty bar in the upper position. The man had grasped the lower hooks with his hands, and was alternately pulling on each one so that his body was being rocked rhythmically from side to side. His neck appeared to be relaxed, so his head flopped back and forth, slightly lagging behind the shoulders. His eyes were closed.

I don't know how long he actually continued this activity, but it seemed like several minutes. I kept trying to pay attention to my dumb bells, but couldn't help looking back at him. It seemed like several minutes.

Does anyone have any idea why he might have been doing this? Is this something that personal trainers tend to tell innocent old men to do? Is this something that was done "back in the day" that he is hoping will restore his youth?


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:38 am 
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Yes, I sent multiple copies of the post. Please forgive me, and I'll never do it again.


Last edited by Jungledoc on Fri May 29, 2009 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:03 am 
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I think it's an ancient ritual that you do to become at one with the bench. Next time I bench i'll try it and see if I hit a PR.

Wouldn't suprise me if trainers were getting taught that, considering the stuff that i'm being taught just now at that course. I'll look out for it.

KPj


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