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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:21 am 
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Jebus wrote:
I don't mean to affend anyone but If you Believe in god, you'r ignorant.

What does "affend" mean?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Jebus wrote:
You should all watch, Religilous.

Its all based on Ignorance.
I don't mean to affend anyone but If you Believe in god, you'r ignorant.
You don't KNOW "god" exists you just think he does. Until YOU actually SEE "god" then you KNOW he exists, but until then you don't lol which I think will be a very long time.


I agree with what I think you are trying to say, but you gotta work on the English and the argument a bit or you're going to get pwned.

Lots of stuff you can't see exists. It's more that there is no evidence of god. So there is no more reason to believe in him than the tooth fairy. Other than your parents telling you to and showing you a religious book of questionable origins. That's kind of a better way to put it. But don't call people ignorant or anything like that. That's just an ad hominem. It's a flaw in the argument and it will "affend" people. lol


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:01 pm 
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lol I havent been to school in a long time, its complicated but long story short i moved and now i have to go back.

But Ignorant means Not Knowing, right? And since people don't know he exists they only think he does then that means thier ignorant.

of course that doesn't mean thier total idiots.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:34 pm 
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Just out of curriosity do you also not believe in love? I've heard some people argue that love is merely an illusion created by brain chemicals.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Matt Z wrote:
Just out of curriosity do you also not believe in love? I've heard some people argue that love is merely an illusion created by brain chemicals.


Love is a feeling, it's not a god


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:33 am 
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Jebus wrote:
Love is a feeling, it's not a god
Yeah, but you can't see it, so it doesn't exist.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:12 am 
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No one has ever observed atoms, ie protons, neutrons, or electrons.

By your defintion they don't then exist. What do you suppose the universe is made from then?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:52 am 
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Jungledoc wrote:
Jebus wrote:
Love is a feeling, it's not a god
Yeah, but you can't see it, so it doesn't exist.


you feel it. so you know it exists.

Also im speaking personally, Atoms and everything do exist but we personally don't exactly know 100%, we know around 99%.

Just because someone tells you something doesnt mean its true. Even if thier right.

Let's say someone has a apple and says that it tastes sweet and asks you what it tastes like. Now let's say you have never had an apple before in your entire life, you say it tastes sweet because he told you that. But until you personally taste the apple you will never know the exact taste.

Understand now?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:59 am 
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For someone who doesn't believe in God or a god, what is the incentive to act morally?

Hypothetically, if you don't believe in a higher power, would you kill someone for personal gain if there were no consequences to that killing? If not, why not?

When I was younger I too was an athiest and believed that anyone who actually thought there was some mystical forces acting on our lives was ignorant or stupid. To change the way I thought, I had to make a mighty big leap of faith.

We now have tons of evidence supporting evolution, the creation of the world, etc. Modern medicine has created medical mericals. What changed my mind was when I read an article about the bible. In it (you can say what you want about the many different versions of the bible, interpretations, etc.) there was a phrase that changed my life. It said, and I paraphrase, "You can't pick and choose what you want to believe in. It is an all or nothing principle." From there, after much thinking, things became easier to swallow.

How can a intelligent, well educated person like me believe, for example, that the world was created in 6 days? The evidence against it is overwhelming. The devil is also known as the great deceiver. He doesn't win by making you worship him. All he has to do is make you not believe in God. Once he does that, he wins. If the devil has god-like power, why can't he produce evidence when the world is ready for it to make people doubt what is in ithe bible? You start doubting the bible, you start doubting the existance of God. He wins.

I am not preaching and I am not testifying. I am neither ignorant nor stupid. The people I know who are athiests cannot understand my transformation. I am in no way a good person and for the most part people would not hold me up as an example of a good Christian. In fact, I find organized religon tedious and boring. I haven't been to church in over a year and I am a sinner. Call me a hypocrit, but I know what I believe in.

Even worse, I'm a conservative (right Ironman :lol: )


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Jebus wrote:
Understand now?


Nope.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:14 pm 
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[quote="hoosegow"]For someone who doesn't believe in God or a god, what is the incentive to act morally? [quote]

Hoose, i always ask creationists the same questions.

Do you have any evidence for God and in this case the Devil? Please don't say the Bible, scripture's not evidence for anything.

Why is it your Christian God who created the world and not Thor, Allah, Zeus, Wodan etc etc??


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:19 pm 
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Understand that I am not getting into a discussion of whether or not my God, or anyone's god exists. The discussion was that only stupid and ignorant people can believe in a higher being.

That's the thing Proper Knob. I'll readily admit that if you remove my basis of fact (Bible) I have no arguement. That is like me asking you to not use science because it is a set of rules made up by humans to fit a set of circumstances. If I can't use the Bible, then I'm just another sheep believing what anyone tells me. You have to go on, GASP, faith. How can you believe in something you can't prove? You have to have faith.

I know my arguement of hocus pocus mysticism sounds crazy. In this modern time we have to reject what people have been forcing down our throats as facts from the time we were little in order to believe in God. Being a Christian is not a popular thing right now if you are to believe what American culture is telling you. It is quite popular to bash Christians and their beliefs. Call them ignorant and stupid. Make them ashamed of what they believe in. Ironically it is perfectly acceptable to be Muslim or a Scientologist or whatever religion is in vogue today.

You said that religious people have to be ignorant. I am not and neither are most religious people. I am not asking anyone to change what they think. That isn't my purpose. To me, it is an incredibly simple concept, but incredibly difficult pill to swallow. Here is the concept. You have to accept the Bible as factual and true and not just a story. If you believe that (no, I cannot prove it), then everything else makes sense.

So, to answer your question, what keeps me from killing people? I don't want to go to hell. I think it would suck.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:22 pm 
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hoosegow wrote:
Understand that I am not getting into a discussion of whether or not my God, or anyone's god exists. The discussion was that only stupid and ignorant people can believe in a higher being.

That's the thing Proper Knob. I'll readily admit that if you remove my basis of fact (Bible) I have no arguement. That is like me asking you to not use science because it is a set of rules made up by humans to fit a set of circumstances. If I can't use the Bible, then I'm just another sheep believing what anyone tells me. You have to go on, GASP, faith. How can you believe in something you can't prove? You have to have faith.

I know my arguement of hocus pocus mysticism sounds crazy. In this modern time we have to reject what people have been forcing down our throats as facts from the time we were little in order to believe in God. Being a Christian is not a popular thing right now if you are to believe what American culture is telling you. It is quite popular to bash Christians and their beliefs. Call them ignorant and stupid. Make them ashamed of what they believe in. Ironically it is perfectly acceptable to be Muslim or a Scientologist or whatever religion is in vogue today.

You said that religious people have to be ignorant. I am not and neither are most religious people. I am not asking anyone to change what they think. That isn't my purpose. To me, it is an incredibly simple concept, but incredibly difficult pill to swallow. Here is the concept. You have to accept the Bible as factual and true and not just a story. If you believe that (no, I cannot prove it), then everything else makes sense.

So, to answer your question, what keeps me from killing people? I don't want to go to hell. I think it would suck.


you really need god telling you killing people is bad, you couldn't figure that out yourself? How about jail? if no one believed in hell would you still kill, or would you think, oh wait a minute ill go to jail and get anal'y raped.
Or even the phsycological trauma that is a companied with murdur?

people don't kill each other because they have no fear of a hell. Allot of mudurs are very spur of the moment and don't realize the consequences until it's too late. It's emotions

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."Albert Einstein


Last edited by Jebus on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Jebus wrote:

you really need god telling you killing people is bad, you couldn't figure that out yourself? How about jail? if no one believed in hell would you still kill, or would you think, oh wait a minute ill go to jail and get anal'y raped.
Or even the phsycological trauma that is a companied with murdur?

people don't kill each other because they have no fear of a hell. Allot of mudurs are very spur of the moment and don't realize the consequences until it's too late. It's emotions


Honestly dude, listen to Ironman. I know you feel passionate about this but you have to take a step back for a second.

1) You spell like total garbage. Either use MS word, or Firefox. Because no one is going to take your argument serious when you type like my 11 year old. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm trying to help I promise.

2) You have to learn to channel your emotion, especially if your looking to debate. You can't just fly off at the hip and expect what you write to be coherent and convincing. Unless you have a talent for writing, you need to proofread your stuff many times.

3) You are talking about religion. Like anything in life, you can't make someone change their mind, and can only offer your side of the conversation, and answer any questions the other side may have. If someone converts to your way of seeing the world because of what you say, I don't believe you're ready for that responsibility, so be weary of line you tread here. What are the first three books you would recommend someone?

4) YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RELIGION. Expect this to be as civil as telling your mother-in-law she is a fat cow, and if she has one more snide backhanded remark for you in your house, she can take the stick that is already so far up her ass it's fossilized, and shove it in more to make room for your foot. Just don't be the first one to lose your temper.

That being said, carry on. I was the same way not too long ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:28 pm 
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nygmen wrote:

3) You are talking about religion. Like anything in life, you can't make someone change their mind, and can only offer your side of the conversation, and answer any questions the other side may have. If someone converts to your way of seeing the world because of what you say, I don't believe you're ready for that responsibility, so be weary of line you tread here. What are the first three books you would recommend someone?


That being said, carry on. I was the same way not too long ago.


sorry, I get carried away sometimes.

I don't know if you were serious but as for 3 books, i would recommend: Tao Te Ching, Economics in One lesson and The Intelligent Investor.

Also right now I'm reading Constitution of Liberty by F.A Hayek and Starting Strength.


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